SBC Presidential Interviews| Steve Gaines

May 23, 2016

Will Hall | Editor
Baptist Message, Louisiana

**This article was originally posted HERE and is used by permission**
For more information on Will Hall click HERE and www.baptistmessage.com

Describing what his presidential priorities might mean for the Southern Baptist Convention, Steve Gaines emphasized during an exclusive interview the need to pray for revival in our churches and a spiritual awakening in our country, and an equally critical need to train to be soul winners again.

Moreover, Gaines said there is a stewardship problem among Southern Baptists – starting with personal budgeting, and he made the point that “the Cooperative Program is by far the very best way to support Southern Baptist missions,” not societal giving. In that regard, Gaines said there needs to be greater emphasis on the value of local associations and state conventions in order to have healthy and growing national programs and entities.

Finally, on the issue of Calvinism, Gaines said he believes “anybody can be saved” and that although there is room in the SBC tent for different beliefs, “I do not believe that Calvinism should be taught as the optimal exclusive theological position in our schools, whether our seminaries or our colleges.”

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Tom

Gaines said:”Moreover, Gaines said there is a stewardship problem among Southern Baptists.” IMO absolutely not. It is an accountability issue. Gaines lives like a King compared to his church members; some I am sure struggling to just pay their daily bills and then Gaines preaching the Old Testament tithe requirement.

I am still waiting for an explanation of the over 1000 SBC missionaries called home and the overspending of 210 million dollars. I think if the truth was known the CP would have some serious financial issues.

    KD

    Tom,
    You are absolutely correct. The $210 million is appalling.
    And the Micah teaching on the tithe and we SBC giving 10% is one of the biggest lies told. If we are going to do this, they need to start teaching that pork, shrimp, lobster, catfish, consumption is bad too. ( I’d love them to tell us in this part of the world Crawfish consumption is Un-Biblical. )

      volfan007

      KD,

      I’m really beginning to think that you’ve got a problem with the Bible and Christianity, period. Are you a Christian?

      David

        Tom

        David:

        I am not KD, but one could ask the very same question about you. But me thinks your arrogance is showing again by asking such a question.

        Scott Shaver

        David:

        Whether or not you realize it, your question to Tom is symptomatic of SBC constituent “mistrust/suspicion” of their so called “leadership”.

        YOUR bible and YOUR version of “Christianity” as reflected by your question has nothing to do with either.

        You asked Tom if he was a “Christian”. I’m asking if you are a PUTZ? I doubt seriously than non-christians have any motivations whatsoever to interact in “Christian” cyberspace. General trend is they like to take pot shots at Christians in open public forums. Which one are you?

          volfan007

          Scott, Tom, and KD,

          I’m beginning to wonder about all of you. Have you truly surrendered your heart to Jesus as your Lord and Savior? I’m not asking if you joined a Church, or like to talk about theology, or church politics. I’m not asking if you’ve been baptized, and self identify as a Christian. I’m asking you if you truly have put your faith in the Jesus Christ…that He died for your sins on the cross, and that He physically rose from the dead after three days? I’m being totally serious, and I’m not trying to be mean, or cute, or arrogant. I’m seriously and sincerely asking you.

          David

            Scott Shaver

            David:

            Unlike you, I have no doubt that you’ve surrendered your heart and life to Jesus. I do believe, however, that you’re going to learn some things on the day of accounting that you are unwilling to accept now.

            We’ll talk about em more at that time in the light of full disclosure.

            Until then….don’t give a rat’s rear end about your estimation (whether public or private) as to my own personal relationship with Christ. I’m not rying to be mean, cute or arrogant as well.

            Tom

            Please go and concern yourself with someone elses soul like your own. BTW, IMO you are an arrogant, finger in the hair to see which way the wind is blowing persona far as the SBC is concerned.

            Scott Shaver

            David:

            You think you’re being totally “serious”….I think you’re being totally “pedantic”.

        Scott Shaver

        Looks to me like KD has a bigger problem with the posts of volfan007 than he/she does with anything I’ve personally read in THE BIBLE or seen in CHRISTIANITY.

      Tom

      KD:

      Power and money describe the goals of too many of the SBC bigshots. But I think many of them are so afraid the money is going to dry up from their members.

      Scott Shaver

      Problem is KD (and they will never understand this).

      THE BIBLE IS NOT THEIR SOLE POSSESSION AND THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY OVER ITS INTERPRETATION…..that job belongs to the author and the LAMB.

      The Bible (left wholly in their jurisdiction) is as useful and “inerrant” as a MARVEL COMIC BOOK

        K.D.

        David, go back and read the Micah 3. In the OT, do it in Classical Hebrew.
        The word tithe is always defined as a tenth of:

        a) the grain or produce,
        b) the harvest from the vine in the form of wine,
        c) the harvest of the olive in the form of olive oil,
        d) and the tenth animal that passed under the rod from the herd.

        Would you like 10% of my wine?
        And you question, I will not even dignify.

          K.D.

          That should say ” And your question, I will not even dignify.”
          Auto-correct. can’t live with it, can’t live without it…

norm

Thanks, Editor Hall, for this interview. I can’t wait to read the other two.

    Ben Hackler

    There’s only one more interview to share and that is Crosby’s. The third interview of Greear is only a rehashing of his declining to be interviewed.

      Scott Shaver

      Which means Greear can only function in orchestrated media settings of his choosing…..not a good sign.

      thumbs down.

      Also shines a light on the SBC brain-trusts suspicion of the autonomy of state baptist conventions.

      What do you expect from a guy who’s currently operating with slightly larger and preferred “slice of the pie”?

Scott Shaver

Crosby will be closer to a 1963 BFM mentality than the other two. He is the longest tenured pastor since J.D. Grey at FBC NewOrleans.

Has managed to relocate the church to a prime location with historic membership in tact. Has managed to keep his hands clean of the “dung” we deal with daily on these blog sites.

He has my nod.

    Tom

    Scott:

    If I was a betting person (I am not) J.D. will win with a high percentage of the very few messengers that bother to go to the dull SBC convention.

      Scott Shaver

      Well then Tom:

      Two old “questionable Southern Baptist Christians” like you and me will be able to go back to our churches, family and friends and say….”See, I told you so”…..LOL.

        K.D.

        I remember when tens of thousands of messengers went to Convention……Will there be 5000 this year?

          Tom

          But the SBC current leaders will tell you all is well in the SBC–Lets see prior to 1979 the emphasis was on BOLD MISSION THRUST and then the TAKEOVER. Sarcasm alert yeah the SBC is doing a lot better. Maybe it is time for Paige and Pressler and others to repent of what they destroyed–the SBC.

          Volfan007

          I was at Dalkas and Atlanta in the 1980’s. I can remember very well what was going on and why th CR needed to happen.

            Tom

            David:

            The need for CR was a fabrication. Look at what all this fighting to remove a few liberals has done to the SBC. But you think you get points from the SBC big-wigs every time you praise the CR. BTW I did not remember a Dalkas.

              K.D.

              I was in seminary during the 80s. I knew the professors, administrators who were purged. These guys today don’t understand the idea of what being a Christian is….trust me, in those days they knew what helping your fellow man meant.

                Tom

                KD:

                Those were real people who got purged and folk like David Worley would have screamed injustice as loud as they could have and for as long as they could have had they been purged. But their small closed minds seemingly can not conceive of such a possibility.

K.D.

I need to tell Paige stories on here one day…..he’s from my area of the nation originally….

Volfan007

If it had not been for the CR, then the SBC would have been just like the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, and the Presbyterian USA, and the Methodist! Thank God for the CR!!!
We had Profs calling God, our Mother; and Profs saying believing in the literal, physical resurrection of Jesus is crass; teaching JEDP theory; 2 Isaiah’s; saying that there’s errors in the Bible; trying to explain away te miracles in the Bible; and all sorts of other.nonsense. I thank God that that the CR happened!!!!!

    Tom Parker

    David:

    As the Aerosmith songs plainly says–Dream on!

      Volfan007

      It’s the facts, and you know it. If the CR hadn’t happened then we would be as liberal as those other dying denominations, who have turned to errors and heresies, who deny the power of God. We might be arguing over whether to ordain homosexuals or not, like the Methodists. Or, we would’ve turned to universalism line so many Gospel-less churches of today.
      No thank you. Thank God for the CR.
      Now, I do know that some good people got hurt in that process. And, I’m sorry they did. But, the CR needed to happen, and God gave the victory. But, I do regret that a few good people got pulled in, and got hurt, who didn’t deserve it.

        Tom

        David:

        You have drunk so much CR KoolAid there is just no way for you to ever see the facts that you are on the wrong side of history as it relates to the CR. You just wait until the CALVINISTS have complete control of the SBC. But you just keep Dreamin on!

        Scott Shaver

        Uh David:

        Take a look around you from an historical “Southern Baptist” perspective. CR or no CR, how far to the left does this SBC apparatus continue to drift before you will admit it’s in worse shape than pre-CR ( in numbers, in missions, in baptisms, in “theology”, in cooperation, etc. etc.) Look at the people and the organizations some of our SBC “leaders” are now in bed with from Louisville to Washington DC.

        The CR needed to happen just like a healthy human being needs to add a little arsenic to his/her coffee each morning until they succumb.

        I suppose the “god” of the CR needed your slash and burn help because this much feared and maligned “liberalism” was too big of match to be overcome alone by the power of the HS. Sounds as if the god who “needed the CR” to happen has some similarities with some others in this matter of Jihad huh? The ends justify the means no matter who gets killed or how in the process. I understand.

        Glad such a mentality fits into your “Christian worldview”. Doesn’t fly with some of us “questionable” believers for some strange reason.

volfan007

As I said, I’m so, so glad that the discussions we’re having, today, in the SBC are about Calvinism, rather than about ordaining homosexuals, or being a champion for radical feminism. I’m so glad that the discussions were having, today, in the SBC, are about how to best fund missions, rather than having debates on whether the virgin birth was true, or not.

Thank God for the CR!

Also, my Christian worldview very much says to keep errors and heresies out of our Churches. And, in the Bible, you’ll find Churches being praised for recognizing errors and heresies and heretics, and not letting them spread, like a cancer, in the Churches. God commends these Churches for doing this. He is pleased that they protect the Churches and promote sound doctrine.

Also, just because the SBC is having problems, right now, with money, and baptisms, and such does not mean that the CR was not a good thing. A lot of good Churches go thru things that makes the attendance go down, sometimes. So, for yall to jump on the hard times that the SBC is having at the moment, and try to make it look like the CR is the cause of it is beyond ridiculous. There’s many other things at play, here. A lot of different things.

David

    Scott Shaver

    David:

    Funny, before the CR I didn’t see fellowship having to be withdrawn from churches over the ordination or placement of homosexual and lesbian “ministers”.

    Didn’t see the CLC or the non-existent TGC 20 years ago calling for moderation in SBC dialogue over the subject of homosexuality. Didn’t see infant baptisms occurring in SBC churches.

    You’re not having these conversations now, David, because the denomination under its current style of leadership has drifted willingly into the emergent stages of ACCEPTANCE.

      Robert Vaughn

      Scott: “Didn’t see infant baptisms occurring in SBC churches.”

      Do you mean SBC churches accepting people who have been baptized elsewhere as infants (which I am aware of), or SBC churches baptizing very small children like 2 or 3 years (which I am aware of), or are some SBC churches actually baptizing infants now?

      Thanks.

      Robert Vaughn

      Scott, while waiting on you I did some Googling. I found an ABCUSA in Dayton, Ohio who sprinkled an infant last year, (HERE), but haven’t found a Southern Baptist case yet. The pastor’s comments indicate this is the next logical step after accepting adult members who received the rite as infants without immersing them as adults.

      Robert Vaughn

      Scott, I am certainly looking forward to getting any information you have about infant baptism in SBC churches. I haven’t found it yet. Elizabeth Newman at Baptist Theological Seminary in Richmond said of the ABCUSA incident referenced above that “Kennedy is the first Baptist pastor…she’s known to baptize an infant.”

      If you’re talking about baptizing very small children, I agree this is a problem and not substantially different from baptizing an infant. But this is not a new problem and predates the CR.

Randall Cofield

Well blow me over.

The liberals have commandeered the SBC Today comments, and volfan seems to be the only one with brass enough to point out the liberals’ absurdities.

Whodathunkit?

    Tom

    Randall:

    You would not know what a liberal was if your life depended on it. Don’t be so quick to judge those that no better about the CR,

      Randall Cofield

      I know that anyone who posts without a last name, cites Aerosmith, and thinks the pre-CR years were the theological glory-days of the SBC is a liberal. I also know that some of Mr. Shavers’ rabidly anti-CR stablemates in Hattiesburg, MS are very vocal proponents of gay “marriage” and were asked to leave the local association of SB churches–which they did *not* do graciously. So a) volfan David Worley knows exactly what he is talking about, and b) I’ve got a pretty good handle on what a liberal is.

      But thanks for your concern.

        Lydia

        Randall, I have no idea what people think a liberal is anymore.

        Have you not been reading posts at TGC or paying attention? I always thought liberals were oligharcical as they love despots who tell people how to live or they are mean and hateful. They Insist people think like them and obey the ever growing government/oligarchy.. They are about control– not individual freedom.

        They would be the ones to protect child predators and turn the SBC into a celebrity leader machine. Liberals shove issues down people’s throats with their binary approach and either/or propaganda. Their leaders always live large off OPM. It’s all they know. They adopt low hanging fruit issues to present a faux empathy in order to attract followers. They present vitriolic binary arguments they think prove those who don’t jump right on their wagon are bad.

        They don’t like it when people think. It’s not good for their business. And they love cheap Grace…..for themselves.

        Lydia

        Randall, the book of Hebrews is anonymous. Therefore it must be discounted? Many victims of terror and such must be anonymous, do you always discount their witness or POV?

        You do understand that despots and bullies would demand their identity in order to further hurt them in any way they can. That is usually how it works.

        Scott Shaver

        Randall:

        Name these “stablemates” and churches in order to substantiate your “knowledge” of me. You cannot and will not. Same old slanderous song and dance we’ve been toying with since the opening salvos of the “CR”.

        You’ve just proven with your comment that despite the “REV” title hung around your neck, you’re both a liar and fraud. Beyond that, have a nice day.

          Randall Cofield

          University Baptist Church. Anti-CR, pro-homosexual “marriage, liberal to the bone–some of your “good people” holding dual SBC/Coop alliances–at least until called out on their HM heresy.

          “Liar and a fraud”? It does seem some liberals have abandoned even a pretense of Christian courtesy.

          Bitterness is an ugly thing, my friend.

          Lydia

          Scott, Whenever there is dissent, despots go for the jugular. Despots always hate freedom of thought or freedom of conscious.

            Randall Cofield

            Lydia, allow me to further demonstrate my “despotism.”

            Are you pro-homosexual “marriage”?

            Easy question. No need to dodge or obfuscate.

              Lydia

              Randall, Are you proposing a theocracy?

              What I have a problem with are nine unelected judges making a decision that should have been debated in Congress or sent to the states for debate. Process is important. The Establishment did not want it debated. Their power might be at stake. Both sides. Cowards!

              So they opted for unelected judges to make law for the land. For some reason that does not scare liberals or conservatives.

              I realize the “gotchaquestions” are really big in your world and a way to control people. I just don’t play by your rules.

                Randall Cofield

                I see. Nothing wrong with HM per se. The fact that the “Establishment” didn’t follow due process is the great horror here.

                smh…

                  Lydia

                  “I see. Nothing wrong with HM per se. The fact that the “Establishment” didn’t follow due process is the great horror here.

                  smh…”

                  Randall, you don’t recognize that this sort of response is what makes you an oligharcical minion that disses a representative Republic except when it agrees with you. You dismiss the sausage making process set up for check and balance because it does not feed into your need to immediately categorize people if they dont answer your gotcha questions.

Randall Cofield

Lydia, you may need to check the settings on your spin machine. Conflating theological liberalism and political liberalism for the sake of axe grinding produces the very kind of propaganda against which you think you are complaining. You don’t see it, do you? ;-)

Lydia

Randall, all “establishment’ thinking becomes oligharcical at some point. Because it becomes about controlling people and maintaining power. The establishment becomes liberal because they see themselves as knowing best for others while they give themselves a pass on their own rules the institute for others. They are also very good at spending other people’s money and deception.

My guess is you were one of the early adapters to the reformed power/determinist model of Christian philosophy. It gave you a perceived power you had never possessed before as one of the mini philosopher kings who knows best for others. I do understand the need one has to maintain that established system even though I find the system contemptible.

    Randall Cofield

    I didn’t think you saw it, but it never hurts to try. Conspiracy Theorism is indeed a bottomless pit with a powerful vortex…

    Scott Shaver

    Lydia:

    Do you think he’ll keep giving up names and churches?…..LOL

Lydia

Randall, I am going by your words on blogs over the years. I think it would be horrible if you were censored or marginalized. I wish your lot felt the same.

Randall Cofield

Lydia, that you apparently think any and every heresy is owed a seat at the SBC table renders your concern that I not be marginalized rather meaningless, does it not?

    Scott Shaver

    Additionally Mr. Perfect (Cofield):

    You used a plural designation in your ill-fated attempt at giving a thumb-nail sketch of your clairvoyant estimation of my character. You said “stablemates” and “churches”. You’ve named 1 “stablemate” and 1 “church”.

    I guess the ethic of perfection you follow allows for a little erroneous “twist” and “slant” of it’s own. Where (names and churches) are the others?

      Scott Shaver

      Since my previous response to Randall remains in moderation.

      He’ll have trouble understanding the nature of this last response that was not moderated.

        volfan007

        I can name at least two Churches in Memphis that have departed from Scripture, and continued the way the liberals were taking the SBC. First and Second Baptist Churches.

          Scott Shaver

          David:

          So even in Memphis the SBC is still “losing ground” with historic baptist churches…..anyone surprised?

      Randall Cofield

      Mr. Shaver, if you are going to parse my statements, you should at least attempt to parse them correctly.

      While only one example of the consequences of your brand of liberalism is more than sufficient, you have been given three examples.

      I’ve watched you and other liberals for months on end at this cite try to wedge your way into the internecine kerfuffle between Trads and Cals, all the while denigrating the CR. You seem to think you can rehash and reassert the liberal agenda of the pre-CR years.

      Now, we Cals and Trads may scuffle and roll around in the dirt over soteriology like warring siblings, but if you and your fellow travelers think this is an opportunity to slip your liberal agenda in under the radar, you are sadly mistaken.

      I know I will stand shoulder to shoulder against you with the David Worleys, Rick Patricks and Norm Millers–and I’m pretty sure they feel the same way.

      So if you guys want try, bring it. We’ll be your huckleberry.

      Otherwise, you should surrender your silly pretense that you have something in common with my Trad brothers.

    Lydia

    “Lydia, that you apparently think any and every heresy is owed a seat at the SBC table renders your concern that I not be marginalized rather meaningless, does it not?”

    Who are the experts who decide heresy for you? Calvin? Luther? Edwards?

    I would expect that anything I say to you is meaningless. I have no problem with that at all since you cannot burn me at the stake for it. :o)

David R. Brumbelow

Brief History of SBC Conservative Resurgence
http://gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com/2009/08/brief-history-of-sbc-conservative.html

David R. Brumbelow

    Robert Vaughn

    Midwestern Seminary Professor Ralph H. Elliott wrote The Message of Genesis, which exposed a hidden sore of which many in SBC pews were not aware, helped lead to later discontent with the SBC seminaries, and was (apparently) an underlying reason for creating the 1963 BF&M. In a later book he indicated that there was deception practiced to keep “regular folks” from understanding the import of the higher criticism in the seminaries. One certainly couldn’t label him a fundamentalist, though some might accuse him of “sour grapes”. He wrote about the double-speak practice of some of his colleagues: “Professors and students learn to couch their beliefs in acceptable terminology and in holy jargon so that although thinking one thing, the speaker calculated so as to cause the hearer to affirm something else.” (From The ‘Genesis Controversy’ and Continuity in Southern Baptist Chaos: A Eulogy for a Great Tradition, p. 33.) Perhaps at least Elliott was honest where others were not.

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