Does this film clip remind you of some of the bloggers of our day? Especially watch the end of this video, where Captain Ahab makes his final appeal. This is eerily what we’ve been seeing in blogland here lately. Dont you agree?
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1utb7NgQDI&w=425&h=350]
All I can say is; I, for one, am certainly glad that Starbuck guy gave up fishin’ and went into the coffee business.
CB,
:)
David
PS. I wonder what was Ahab’s favorite flavor?
You know, I could almost hear Capt. Ahab call Starbuck a liar in this clip….especially towards the end. Couldnt you? ;)
Also, wouldnt it be great if Capt. Ahab would have spent as much time and energy on studying the Word of God and winning souls, as he did on trying to “kill” the white whale?
;)
DAvid
Alas, there is no nobility in abandoning the search for truth. Hunting a whale can be folly; hunting truth is what we are called to. (And in the analogy did you really just call E.C. a whale?)
Chris,
I didnt call EC anything. Apparently, you have someone in mind after watching this clip? Hummmmm Interesting.
David
Chris,
Who did Capt. Ahab remind you of?
David
Vol,
He reminded me of Don Quixote.
David,
Are we going to start simply pretending things now?
Reminds me of several people! Peter Lumpkins, Tim Rogers, Tim Guthrie, Diana Penn – but especially Craig “I’d kneecap ‘em, toss em off a bridge in concrete overshoes and laugh maniacally all the way back to Lynchburg” Delassio.
Chris,
No pretending. I didnt mention any names. You’re the one, who brought up names. Apparently watching the clip made you think of someone.
Razor,
Nope, that’s not correct. You lost.
David
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LOL! Great comment by RazorsKiss. Watching Ergun Caner defenders look for truth reminds me of the time O.J. Simpson went looking for his wife’s killer. Wonder if this will turn out any better?
All right now. Just because the bait is placed on the hook and thrown in the water doesn’t mean that you have to bite it. You can go fishing if all you want, but if the fish don’t cooperate then all you will catch is a log, tire and old shoe or two.
Byroniac,
Did anyone mention Dr. Caner? So, who does Capt. Ahab symbollize in your scenario?
Job,
What?
David
David Worley,
No one needed to mention Dr. Caner.
And Captain Ahab represents no one in my scenario because the representation itself is flawed at its foundation (unless he is supposed to symbolize himself, of course).
Everyone needs to read this:
http://www.normangeisler.net/infurtherdefenseofcaner.html
David
James White, Turrentinfan and I’m sure others will analyze Norman Geisler’s attempted second defense of Ergun Caner, and point out errors such as fallacious reasoning as they have before. I can point out one right now: the “repentance” statement of Ergun Caner’s of February 25, 2010, has no validity. None. Who decided this? Ergun Caner himself did, or his representative, when it was removed from the website for consideration, without explanation. Why should anyone take seriously the idea that some statement should be accepted as an offer of defense after it has been removed from its official website? That’s the first problem, the second is ambiguous language, and the list could go on. And has.
David,
It seems a little disingenuous to imply that you had nobody in particular in mind. You did refer to some bloggers who you think are analagous to the clip you posted. It wouldn’t make sense for me to believe that the reference to “bloggers” was arbitrary and didn’t really have any intended reference, especially after you posted a link to a defence of a particular person by Dr. Geisler.
I don’t think it’s very christlike to try to disingenuously bait or trap other believers. Why not just state your thesis, give resons, and defend it as appropriate? Isn’t that how rationality is supposed to work?
Thanks,
Jimmie
Byron,
You sound like a fella with such an open mind and forgiving heart. Not.
Jimmie D.,
Of course, I put this clip on here with a purpose. Of course, I had some people in mind. I put it on here to just see who people would think that I had in mind. In fact, Jimmie, Capt. Ahab could fit a lot of bloggers. And, I never mentioned Dr. Caner; did I? No. But, I’d have to confess that he’s certainly some bloggers “Moby Dick.” Wouldnt you? Jimmie, are there anymore “Moby Dick’s” out there? You reckon? Or, does this film clip HAVE to be about the particular person/people that you’re thinking of?
So, there was no dishonesty here, Jimmie. Just a little, good ole, Southern wisdom. Kind of like Briar Fox and Briar Rabbit. But, I know how some types of people like to see everything in a more black and White way, and how they like to call people “disingenuous,” or “liars.”
BTW, in all HONESTY, who came to your mind while watching this clip?
DAvid
Oh DAVID,
You have mentioned it.
Don’t you remember? You did. In your comments on Bart Barber’s post written on April Fools Day:
‘The Steely Backbone of the School of Jerry Falwell’
Didn’t you write this there?
” What’s even worse is that these people actually think that they’re doing service to God with their obsession. It’s Capt. Ahab after his white whale all over again.
I pray that God will give Dr. Ergun Caner grace and strength to withstand these mean spirited attacks. And, I pray that Liberty University will give these bloggers with an agenda the same attention that we’d all give to an anonymous letter written by some upset, mad person, who’s ranting and raving like a howling dog.
David
April 1, 2010 1:48 PM ”
And then this? :
“volfan007 said…
Debbie, “Dr.” White, L’s, and others involved in the Great White Whale Hunt . . . . .
. . . I really want to encourage yall to stop hunting the white whale; to quit fighting the wind mills.
David
April 2, 2010 9:54 AM
I’m sure you forgot about it, but there it is.
But David knows that EC grew up in Ohio–which is more than EC seems to know from time to time.
How could I be “wrong” when the question was who *we* thought of? :)
Christiane,
Nope, I didnt forget. I remember writing all of that. And?
Bennett,
What’s funny…in a sad way…is that you and some others, who dont know Dr. Caner at all, think yall know him better than he knows himself. Now, that’s a hoot.
Razors, you’re just wrong. :)
David
David Worley,
My alleged personality defects aside, even if true, do not in themselves nullify my assertion that Geisler’s reasoning is faulty. How would you counter my assertion, specifically in the one point I mentioned? Why not just admit that retracting an official statement of apology without explanation or replacement weakens that statement of apology and let it go at that?
Byron,
I’m not into hunting whales…White, black, blue, or whatever. I’d be more like Mr. Starbuck.
David
So, if Geisler’s reasoning is faulty in defense of Ergun Caner, the bigger problem is that Ergun Caner is being accused?
The anti-spam word is “love.” That really puts a wet rag on what I want to say :)
Not long ago I counseled with a woman who was still angry at her ex-husband — maybe for good reason, at one time. But, over 40 years later, she is still bitter.
The problem seemed obvious to me: he died about a decade or so ago.
The moral of the story seems to me: it seems stupid to keep beating a dead horse. But, it seems even more foolish to still try riding it!
What possible edification could possibly come by continuing hash and re-hash The Ergun Caner saga. For those of you that are not satisfied with “ten pounds of flesh,” will you ever be satisfied? I have one question: what if Ergun were your brother? Would you still want to beat him even further in the ground for some “sacred defense of the faith?” Sounds like a Pharisaical approach to the Bible to me.
Ergun Caner is a brother — or do you question also his salvation? Time to let this one go. No buddy comes out clean in a mud wrestling contest.
In a general note: are there any Baptist blogs that really want to “edify the body?” I’m new to blogging, (actually back after a hiatus) and I went for a visit over at SBC Voices. My assumption (and I’m sure someone will correct me and ask for my head if I’m wrong which is OK since I don’t use it much :) . . . but is there a contest of some sort I’m not aware of between SBC Voices and SBC Today. Seems like they don’t like you (SBC Today) over there.
Please, if you ever see that I have fallen into the swamp over at that place, would you throw me a rope?
The *vast* majority of my typical writing is training newcomers to apologetics and theology. I dearly love building up the body. The problem is not that we want our Shylock “pound of flesh” – it’s that many want to deny that anything untoward even happened at all, despite reams of documentary evidence – most of which those denying that sin was committed have not examined well, if at all. Exposing sin is one thing – it’s been done. Denial that sin is sin… now we’re getting into 1 John territory, and that is why the discussion continues.
Sorry to clutter the thread – but I figured SSBN would want an answer to his question, if it wasn’t rhetorical.
SSBN,
Re # 28
I believe I can speak for all over here at SBC Today when I say there is no competition on our account. It may well b that we are not liked over at SBC Voices, but they have not indicated that to us.
Blessings,
Timf
Christiane,
Nope, I didnt forget. I remember writing all of that. And?
David, you better watch it. That sweet little butterfly has claws and sharp teeth see
here, here, and here. Now, of course, she didn’t sign her name or her nom-de-plume, L’s, to those comments because she wants to pretend she’s this sweet, innocent little butterfly just fluttering around the internet dropping dollops of sweetness and sugary sweet words of love on everybody. But when she goes “stealth” as she did in those comments on Ahab’s blog you can see (a) her real character–she HATES anything conservative or Christian and (b) how far she’s willing to take thos attacks–I mean, they were so hate filled it made me blush.
So, David my friend, be careful or she’ll come after you like Mt Cody during a field goal kick on the 3rd Saturday in October. LOL
SSBN,
No competition here. I’m just for Jesus and the truth of the Bible. Over here, at SBC Today, we’re for the SBC standing on the Gospel and the truth of God’s Word. And, we dont like to watch our friends being assasinated by people with a clear agenda.
David
Byron,
Are you really so sure that Dr. Geisler’s reasoning is wrong? And, you know this, how? Are you privy to inside info? Do you have private eye’s on the case? Do you have your harpooneers ready? Are you telling the men to row faster to catch…..oh, excuse me, I got caught up in the moment…..
David
No, I don’t know that Geisler’s reasoning is wrong. In this particular case, it is entirely possible that posting an ambiguously worded, generic repentance statement actually constitutes a strong letter of repentance for specific sins. Furthermore, yanking said repentance letter without explanation or replacement could also serve to strengthen the forcefulness of that repentance letter. And speaking factual statements which are self-contradictory (which I erroneously believed constituted good ole fashioned lying) are not moral issues. I do not have proof that any of this is wrong. Unless, that is, I look into the Scriptures.
David W,
Where did EC grow up? You said that he grew up in Ohio. Did you mean that?
RazorKiss (Interesting name),
I’ve not seen in my research that EC has tried to keep himself in the news or had sought to defend himself in any way, or has tried to gain any place of prominence in the SBC. The matter has been beat to death and there is no way he is ever going to show his face in the SBC world in any fashion.
The sore would heal if you would stop picking it. What possible edification comes from continuing this witch hunt? I’m not suggesting that there was a point something should have been said. Now, it just looks like a bad rerun of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Blood and gore for the sake of blood and gore.
The only people I can imagine don’t see this, are people who have an agenda that does not include the possibility of forgiveness and reconciliation — which is what I suppose Liberty U was trying to bring about.
It just seems like every book should have a last chapter — even Moby Dick.
SSBN,
Amen and amen and amen. You have spoken truth and wisdom well this fine day, my friend.
Byron, does the Bible tell us how long a statement of confession must stay up on a website? Can you quote the book and chapter and verse for me, please?
Bennett, Where did you grow up? Have you grown up? :)
David
David Worley, no but the Bible also says nothing of posting to a website an ambiguous generic apology statement purposely lacking specifics for sins committed (and logically, that’s what it had to be since every Caner defender believes it to be an actual statement of apology it seems), much less pulling it later. So, you do have a point, I guess. Normally, when people post something and then pull it without explanation it means withdrawal from consideration. But not here, apparently. My bad.
SSBN, your complaint rings hollow. If Ergun Caner is truly innocent, why not come out and say so, and end the matter today? All he has to do is answer the questions his accusers have asked, especially concerning evidence already available from witnesses. Is that really so difficult? Or, if he is guilty, why not publicly repent? It was never a Matthew 18 issue (we don’t handle political factual statements which are self-contradictory this way; no, on the other hand, we expect justice in public for wrongs done publicly).
Great clip.
Ahab reminds me of Craig D, and his expressed hatred and desire to send to hell bloggers critical of Ergun Caner.
Ahab also reminds me of certain other people who were obsessed with finding my identity as the Watchdog blogger, doing their dead-level best to paint me as a dangerous criminal.
Hi DAVID,
I have heard about Ergun Caner growing up in different places, yes.
But do you know where he was born?
In the last speech I looked at on video, he says he was born in Istanbul, Turkey, and grew up as a ‘sand monkey’ (his words).
Now, people who support him say that he was born in Sweden.
I think some people should stop the lies about him being born in Sweden if HE says he was born in Turkey. Why? Because when people ask which one is true, these ‘supporters’ attack them for asking.
It’s game-playing, not Christ=honoring, David.
In the end, Christ will be honored and ‘all will be well’,
but on the journey to that end, there are people that would like to see less game-playing.
QUOTE (and logically, that’s what it had to be since every Caner defender believes it to be an actual statement of apology it seems)END QUOTE
I’m a Caner defender (though I only know what others have said and I have no personal knowledge of the matter). I defend him even though I admit to just the opposite of your quote: I don’t know if his apology is genuine. That is I don’t “know” with any epistemological certainty (like I “know” 2+2=$).
In the absence of such certainty, I do not feel it is Christ-like to carry on a crusade (word chosen wisely) to destroy the man. I do know I am NOT his pastor, NOT his employer, and NOT someone who has a personal relationship in which I can hold him accountable. Others who do have those connections, seem to have dealt with it.
Now, some of you do not feel you have gotten your fill of flesh. Unless and until EC seeks to gain a place of public prominence in the public eye, there is no good end to continue to stomp the corpse of his former glory. Give the man a chance to heal.
It is interesting that when Wade could not get Brother Geisler to join the witch hunt — and I’m shocked an email from Wade could not accomplish this — somehow, people are now questioning Geisler’s credentials. That is astonishing.
Jesus had very stern words for the disciples when they wanted to “control” the ministry of others “not of us.” Jesus said we should be careful of making enemies of those who have not chosen to make an enemy of themselves. EC apparently does not want to make himself an enemy of the church — why treat him as one only to bolster a Pharisaical myth of defending the gospel.
Again I say, “time to move on.” I’ll not respond Byroniac and give you the last word on this matter with grace and hope we can come to an edifying end to this novel. AHOY MATE!
SSBN,
Whoever you are, you have again spoken this most wisely. I thinking very seriously about closing this comment thread. I have no interest whatsoever of re-hashing over and over and over again things about Dr. Caner. This post was supposed to be a little half joke, all truth post on the obsession that some bloggers have; and yet, they think their obsession is a good and godly thing that honors Christ and serves God. I have absolutely no desire to turn this into yet another “Lets Talk about Dr. Caner for the 3000th Time” post. Thank you, SSBN for truly being a voice of reason. I’m sincerely glad that you’re joining our little party here at SBC Today. You may comment anytime you like, as far as I’m concerned.
Byron, Christiane, Thomas, and other whale hunters, I’m not into whale hunting….soooooooo….
David
David, just be into Christ-honoring.
I want that for you.
I am always into Christ honoring. He is my Lord and Savior, Christiane. I know Him, personally. To know Him is my obsession.
Christiane, I wish that was your obsession, too.
David
Hi JOE BLACKMON,
You poor thing, those comments that made you scared, were from a different ‘butterfly’ than me. I thought you ran away from our dialogue on SBC Voices because you couldn’t handle answering, not because you were afraid of me. My goodness.
Sigh. I must remember to fur my claws around sensitive people such as yourself. Love you. L’s
Oh, by the way, here’s that inter-change from SBC Voices that you ran away from:
“Christiane June 29, 2010 at 6:19 pm
JOE,
you wrote this: “your church also teaches that the bread and wine in the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper actually become the body and blood of Christ”
not biblical . . .
my, my, my,
so we are not to ‘gnaw’ on the Body of Christ and drink His Blood?
(check your translations in the original language for the word ‘gnaw’ and study up on its signifigance)
Gosh, no wonder that one of the excuses for the persecution of the Early Christians was the charge against them for cannibalism, what with their beliefs and all !
But Joe, tell me, where do you think that the first Christians might have gotten their idea about the Body and the Blood of Our Lord in the Eucharist? The concept existed before the first Nicene Council, you know. And it was found in all five of the early centers of Christianity. So it must have got its start at the Church in Jerusalem. But how? And when? And from whom?
I wonder where you think that the idea came from.
I would love to know what you think.
Reply
78 Christiane June 30, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Joe?
Joe?
where did he go?”
L’s, L’s, L’s,
You hypocrite saying Joe ran away from something. For shame, for shame, for shame. Citizens arrest, Citizens arrest.
Here are some things you actually did run away from right here at SBC TODAY a couple of days ago:
“L’s,
You stated;
“Because it involves high-profile ‘Christian’ speakers preaching intolerance to their base: other Christians, who lap it up.”
Who are these “high-profile ‘Christian’ speakers preaching intolerance to their base”?
And who among us Christians are the “base” “who lap it up.”?”
Answer these and I will bring the others right quick. I am going to do all I can to help you get that log out of your eye so you can see that little bitty speck in the other guy’s eye better. It is always my goal to be helpful.
L’s,
Here are some more questions you left behind. Go ahead and answer them. In doing so you will trim that ole log in your eye down a whole lot. You might even make it just a stump or a block.
L’s,
Your comment about intolerant Christians is very lacking in substance.
If it is Christians who are so intolerant, give me a response to the following:
1. If Islam is so peaceful and tolerant, why isn’t there even one Muslim country that will allow freedom of religion and speech?
2. Why is it that of all 55 predominately Muslim nations on earth, toleration is not practiced for Christians? In every one of the 55 nations totally under an Islamic government, Christians are persecuted.
You cannot deny the truth of this. It is fact. Yet, you call Christians Islamophobes?
L’s
If you’re not going to own up to the fact that you were the one who wrote those comments then I am amazingly comfortable calling you a liar.
Now, I never saw those questions. Believe what you want.
I never said we don’t “gnaw” the bread or drink the wine. Is that your knockout punch? Seriously, that is your defense?
The point is not that eating the bread or drinking the fruit of the vine is unbiblical. The point is that the teaching your church holds to that the bread and wine BECOME the body and blood of Christ is unbiblical. As far as when your church’s unbiblical belief came into being, I haven’t the foggiest nor do I really care. I do know it is not in any way, shape, form, or fashion biblical.
How’s this–why don’t you just try defending the position that what is ate and drank during the Lord’s Supper actually becomes the body and blood of Christ from Scripture without appealing to what some Catholic group decided to believe better than 1,000 years ago. Try using the Bible to defend your beliefs.
(crickets chirping)
C.B., are you still in rant-mode?
Are you an Islamophobe?
Do you know what it means?
Do you preach ‘Islamophobia’ in your Church?
I don’t know.
After the Caner fiasco, I don’t know WHAT is being taught in some Churches these days. But I will say that, concerning the stereotyping of innocent minority peoples, intolerance is a sin.
You can quote me on that. I know that intolerance IS practiced by extremists-fundamentalists who are Christian and also by extremists-fundamentalists who are Islamic. What they share is hatred for those who are ‘not like them’. Very sad.
BTW, it was kind of that lady to get you coffee because she thought you were old. :)
And YES, Joe DID run away . . . gone . . . never came back . . . :)
Now I know he’s scared of me ’cause he thinks I have sharp claws.
Oh Darn, I just broke a claw.
Joe,
I noticed you confronted L’s relating to a comment thread that Paula was on. Be careful there Joe.
Paula and Lydia have L’s number and have called her to account for her hatred toward biblical Christianity and her putrid position on terrorists. Any time you remind L’s of anything to do with Lydia or Paula she really shows her true contempt for all things conservative, biblical or American.
L’s glad you are in the house. Stick around. I will go and get your American Christian hating comment and we can talk about it. what do you say?
L’s
Here is your Fourth of July “I hate American Christians comment.
Go ahead and tell the fellows what you meant by:
“I am wondering this:
did anyone ever consider the consequences to the families of our Islamic citizens (husbands, wives, children and babies) of all of the ‘Islamophobia’ being promoted by so-called ‘Christian’ people?
Any response that ‘all they are doing is trying to convert Muslims to Christ’ is pure bologna. Why?
Because it involves high-profile ‘Christian’ speakers preaching intolerance to their base: other Christians, who lap it up.
Result: the seeds of that intolerance are planted in the young of those ‘Christians’ and they have acted out against innocent Islamic children in schools and in neighborhoods.
So, if families are being considered (and they should be), lets start with the victims of intolerance.
And ask: is it a great sin to sow hatred and intolerance among people and claim that it is a ‘Christian’ teaching? Is it a great sin to mock minorities and women and serve this up as entertainment to people in a ‘Christian’ audience?
I’m all for protecting families, but if someone has behaved in unconscionable ways that cause harm to innocent people, and they are confronted, and their supporters cry ‘foul’ ‘this could hurt their families’;
maybe the Christian care for ALL families in the beginning would have been more integral to the honorable service of Our Lord.
Just some thoughts.
the time to think about families is a little bit delayed.
Islamophobes are hate-mongers and spread intolerance. Those who support them and their efforts are also responsible for the harm that WILL come to the innocent targets.
Very sad, this.”
Who are these “high-profile ‘Christian’ speakers preaching intolerance to their base”?
And who among us Christians are the “base” “who lap it up.”?”
L’s?
L’s?
Where did she go?
peek a boo
I meant every word of it, C.B.
six million times over.
“Islamophobes are hate-mongers and spread intolerance. Those who support them and their efforts are also responsible for the harm that WILL come to the innocent targets.”
Especially that part.
Why?
When people release evil, they can’t control how it hurts people. They may think they can, but they can’t. They may say ‘Oh, I didn’t mean for it to go this far . . . ‘
like parents of a bully at school who beats up on a child of a different culture, they talk the hate up at home, and don’t see it poisoning their own child . . until they have to come to school for what their child has done as a result of their own hatred
People need to think about these things, C.B.
Especially Christian people.
Do they teach that in your Church, C.B. ???
When the comment count jumped, I knew it was cb, joe and christiane. Why don’t y’all make a bickering blog and save us cell browsers useless scrolling? Every sbc blog’s comment section has become your collective flamefest.
Hi RAZOR
Why don’t you join the conversation?
I’m sure you could bring a fresh point of view and certainly re-direct to topic.
I suppose it must seem strange to you, but C.B. and Joe and I are old friends of sorts, though not in a conventional sense.
Come join in, if you like. (I don’t really have LARGE claws at all.
They are rather broken and shabby these days. Not to be feared.)
I can’t speak for C.B. or Joe, God bless them, ’cause they sometimes don’t like people who are different from them,
but I would love to learn from what you bring here.
L’s a few days ago I wrote to you
May I say quietly and encouragingly, it is in Christ alone that we have salvation.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
It is not in our doctrines, not in our baptism(s) not in our church or Church, that we have salvation. The Lord Himself is our Salvation, it is our union to Him, unmediated by Church or priest or denomination, but our direct connection with Him brought to us by faith in his Word (1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,) that gives us life.
And now
In Christ alone my hope is found,
He is my light, my strength, my song;
this Cornerstone, this solid Ground,
firm through the fiercest drought and storm.
What heights of love, what depths of peace,
when fears are stilled, when strivings cease!
My Comforter, my All in All,
here in the love of Christ I stand.
In Christ alone! who took on flesh
Fulness of God in helpless babe!
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones he came to save:
Till on that cross as Jesus died,
The wrath of God was satisfied -
For every sin on Him was laid;
Here in the death of Christ I live.
There in the ground His body lay
Light of the world by darkness slain:
Then bursting forth in glorious Day
Up from the grave he rose again!
And as He stands in victory
Sin’s curse has lost its grip on me,
For I am His and He is mine -
Bought with the precious blood of Christ.
No guilt in life, no fear in death,
This is the power of Christ in me;
From life’s first cry to final breath.
Jesus commands my destiny.
No power of hell, no scheme of man,
Can ever pluck me from His hand;
Till He returns or calls me home,
Here in the power of Christ I’ll stand.
L’s will you today own Christ alone as your Saviour and trust yourself totally to Him as your Savior and Lord?
Please, rather than carp and criticise, it is time now to cast your self upon Him alone as that Savior for you.
Evensong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePTVypG9UVA&feature=related
L’s.. I do not understand why you are responding to an earnest plea with a youtube link to some irish girls singing in a cahedral. Would you please explain?
It just seems interesting to me that when one side argues from the standpoint of the actual collected evidence of “factual statements” that prove to be “self-contradictory” and ask for either explanatory answers or a confession of wrong-doing, that it seems to be spun in the worst possible light (using such words as “crusade” and “whale hunting” and getting our “fill of flesh” when none of these such things have yet occurred). If anything, the push has been to ignore the evidence and put those who ask questions on the defensive. It’s rather strange to me.
Steven, You ask for ‘an explanation’???
““To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.
To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
St. Thomas Aquinas
QUOTEGosh, no wonder that one of the excuses for the persecution of the Early Christians was the charge against them for cannibalism, what with their beliefs and all !END QUOTE
Just for the sake of theological correctness: the charge of cannibalism was not sustained as true. So, to base your theology on a false charge seems to mitigate against you, not advocate for you.
The Bible could not be clearer: Christ was offered, “once for all” (Heb. 9:25-28). I say this not because I think it will convert you to the truth, but because there’s a slight chance someone less knowledgeable in the Word might stumble onto your post and fall into the same error of Romanism.
Having said that: I fully support your right to believe anything (or nothing) as your conscience might lead.
I understand fully L’s. You have given a trite excuse to avoid responding to the gospel itself. The call to trust Christ is clear. The rejection of the Savior and His gracious offer is also clear. It would be no kindness for me to allow any other interpretation than this. Your position is made very clear. Thank you.
QUOTEYou can quote me on that. I know that intolerance IS practiced by extremists-fundamentalists who are Christian and also by extremists-fundamentalists who are Islamic. What they share is hatred for those who are ‘not like them’. Very sad.END QUOTE
One big difference for “Islamophiles”: the Bible never sanctions violence as a means to convert anyone. The Koran does — many times. It is false to say that “Islam is a religion of peace” because the Koran is the supreme voice in Islam and it is not a book of peace.
Many people miss this “not-so-subtle” difference between Christianity and Islam because they fail to read the Koran. The calls to “violently bring infidels into submission” (basic meaning of Islam) is found throughout the suras.
So, let’s not compare Islam with Christianity. They are miles apart theologically.
PS–You can love Muslims without loving Islam.
L’s,
Again, you avoid the question.
Who are these “high-profile ‘Christian’ speakers preaching intolerance to their base”?
Name just one. You make a strong comment about “leaders” who preach hate among us as if it is true and then you will not confirm your comment with substance. Why not?
And who among us Christians are the “base” “who lap it up.”?”
Who are these dogs who “lap” up the teachings of these evil proclaimers among us?
Matt,
How dare you malign the religion of Islam, you hate-monger!!!
You ought to know that the faith of Islam is enough to allow a person to get to heaven.
(/sarcasm)
QUOTE““To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.
To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
St. Thomas Aquinas END QUOTE
“Be ready always to give an answer” The Bible
SSBN
But she has given an answer. It’s like her hero, Ahab in Enid, says-”Faith trumps belief”. The idea that it is only faith in Jesus Christ that saves is just antiquated, fundementalist rhetoric. Feel the love. Feel the peace.
(/sarcasm)
well, Steven . . .
did you know that ‘evensong’ is a time set aside for evening prayer?
(sometimes called ‘vespers’)
and the song ‘Jerusalem’ is a prayer twice over:
’cause when we sing, we pray twice, you know
I thought you would understand the significance, but you did not.
Hence, the quote of Thomas Aquinas. Nothing translated to you.
The song ‘Jerusalem’ was written based on some of the writings of St. Augustine. Many songs and poems echo the hope in those writings of St. Augustine.
Here is another, based on Blake’s poem, which echoes the ancient theme of Augustine’s hope:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G1QvkHpGNo&feature=related
You do pray in the evenings Steven? Perhaps I assumed you did.
David,
I think the only question I have about your “half-joke” blog post is: why brother in Christ? Why write a blog that you know is fishing for a response that will spark up another heated debate over a topic that is damaging the Christian witness? We do not need to be provoking our fellow beleivers. This goes for both sides of the arguement. Or have we forgotten what scripture teaches. :(
Jeremiah
Jeremiah,
I guess I’m just a mean spirited idiot, who’s not as intellectual, nor spiritual, as you are.
Or, it could be that I was trying to help some bloggers see the errors of their obsessions….and what it could all lead to. You know, help them.
David
SSBN,
Hello! Welcome to blogland. I thought your initials were new. While I only write an occasional post over there at SBCVoices, I do like the guys here at SBCToday. However, I am only one of the voices over there and few folks pay much attention to me anyway–I’m just a woman. Ha. And I rarely hunt white whales, nor chase windmills and have found fishing in streams where folks do can be perilous for one’s character.
Please come by my blog and drop a line now and then. I’m happy to see new bloggers. May God bless your journeys throughout blogland and beyond. Hariette Petersen (a.k.a. selahV of selahV Today)
Evensong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAEIrp4MFBE&feature=fvw
Volfie: your little video analogy could easily be an illustration of most any blogger who, “lately”, has been obsessed with writing about any particular topic or person, I would suppose. We all, at one time or the other, are Ahab, and at one time or the other are white whales. Unless, of course, you are me. Then you are never captain of anything, nor any bigger than a minnow in the eyes of others. :) Blessings to you, my friend and brother. selahV
Christiane,
My every moment song: http://selahvtoday.typepad.com/griefmatters/2009/09/all-my-tears-by-selah.html
Praying it to be yours, too. selahV
Thank you for sharing that, selah.
SelahV,
Thank you for your kind words and inviting spirit. I understand what you mean when you say you are “Just a woman.”
But, I’d like to encourage you (in every endeavor but being a pastor :) ). I think being a woman is “good.” Most of my wives have been women :)
Harriette,
It’s always good to hear from you. And, dont put down your being a woman. My 3 favorite people on this Earth are women…my wife, my mom, and my daughter. God bless you, and I’m glad that you dont obsess on whales, and chase windmills.
David
David,
Love how you answer with sarcasm. Hum… But as to your plan: Did it work out as you hoped?
JD
I hope it made people think. Did it make you think?
David
David, do you still believe that EC grew up in Ohio? I’m sure you have answered this question before and I just missed it.
Bennett,
Either stay on the subject, or dont comment. Also, I didnt delete anything. I dont know what you’re talking about.
David
David, sometimes the banter on these streams is simply silly. Bennett is so worried that you said on another stream or even here??? I don’t know that Ergun said he grew up in Turkey and Ohio. So what?
I grew up in Virginia and Tennessee. Sometimes when asked where I grew up, I say Virginia. Other times I might ADD that I also grew up in Tennessee. How could this be? Because I spent all my school days in Virginia, and most every summer in Tennessee. Both are true. This has been one of the silliest arguments I’ve seen yet for Christians to bicker about. And Paul tells us to be careful to avoid foolish talk…maybe we need to write out a list of what foolish talk means and define it, too. so nuts. selahV
I grew up in Tennessee. Right across the river bottom from where David W lives. He and I know what “grew up” means and are likely in good agreement on the years it covers. :) And we both know that EC (all of the EC’s) were in Ohio those years. I don’t understand why David cannot answer my question and I’d get on with other things. Maybe he thinks it would reveal something…sinister.
SelaV, one reason that this makes no sense is that somehow several of my comments (and some of David’s) have disappeared. The banter is odd because this is an organ of some pastors–and when you put up a humorous post, you may be treated in kind. It has nothing to do with me. :)
Christiane, There was a direct question.. will you trust Christ alone now? Or will you refuse Him. There was an equivocal answer from yourself. Again, equivocal responses are simply refusals. To even insert “evensong” nto the discussion is an attempt to move from the simple and direct question. You have refused the love and grace of Christ.
Bennett: Hello. Nice ta meet you. Well, I’ve read several postings regarding Ohio and where Ergun resides in the Wes Kenney motion from you, too. So it all seemed quite out of place over there. I was wondering why is so many comments about Ergun Caner growing up in Ohio in a post discussing Kenney’s motion on homosexuality. Seem quite odd there, and to be honest, Bennett, this has been hashed, rehashed, and served up in more ways than eggs and ham. It’s silly. Ergun grew up. He lived in Ohio. He lived in Sweden. He lived in Turkey. Maybe he lived in New York. If he was a child and growing up, he can claim all those places. It is simply silly to keep attacking a man’s integrity over such nonsense. selahV
Bennett, you really need to listen to SelahV. And, until you can comment on something else, I will delete your comments. Now, when you can discuss other things, then your comments will be allowed. I learned many comments ago that no matter how much you explain something, and/or answer people’s questions, and/or tell people that you werent talking about this, or that; there are some people that just dont get it, or they just dont want to get it, or they just want to attack the person.
David
Looks like there is more problem with comments magically disappearing. David can find the delete button but he does not know where the “ban” button is. Maybe someone will show him. But I have the satisfaction of knowing that before he deletes things that he reads them. This is the only way I know for sure. I am content.
Bennett,
Dude, give it a rest. There’s more to life.
David
David Worley, who is responsible for changing the comment numbering in the other thread as I was conversing? Did you? Did Scott Gordon? Who? And how come no one has admitted this to me? This is the sort of thing that influences people to lose confidence in a particular blog.
Byron,
I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. But, why do you see conspiracies and evil scheming behind every bush? Dude, you and Bennett need to take a deep, cleansing breath; get a bowl of Rocky Road ice cream; and repeat 3 times “There’s more to life….there’s more to life….there’s more to life.”
David
BTW, Bennett, I’m not banning you. I dont want to ban anyone from SBC Today. But, I am deleting some of your comments, because you were asked to stop, but choose not to.
David
David Worley, I suppose then I will never receive an answer, then. Fine. That is about what I expected. Perhaps Scott Gordon can come on this thread and deny any knowledge of what I saw with my own eyes. But I would appreciate a straight answer from someone. Someone did it. And someone did not admit it. And I only ask the question because I have a right to know.
Byron,
I’m not trying to cover up anything, and I really do not appreciate your insinuation that I’m trying to do something sinister, or evil. Besides, Byron, what does it really matter if somehow the numbers of the comment thread got rearranged somehow??? I mean, really, Dude, dont you have bigger fish to fry than this? Wow. This is a nothing issue.
You know, Byron, I dont know…but maybe if a comment gets deleted earlier in the thread…maybe that messes up the numbers. I dont know, but maybe that’s it. Maybe Tim, or Wes, or Scott deleted someone, and it changed the numbering. I dont know. But, who really cares?
David
Sorry, David, I do not mean to insinuate that you are behind it. But since you say you do not know, and no one else has come forth admitting it, I will let it drop and not look for an answer that I feel I will never get here anyway. It was very suspicious, I saw it with my own eyes, and, sorry, even if I am just a nobody it IS important to me, at least. And sorry, but your non-answer is exactly what I should have expected for this question.
Byron,
Again, So what? Even if a number of a comment thread was changed, so what? Who cares? How is that so important? Really, Dude, think about it.
The number of this thread is 98, no it’s 99, or is 100?
David
David, sorry, that is another non-answer. It does matter, because it only happened when I started referencing CB Scott’s comments, and soon as I posted the entire post and comments temporarily to my blog, the numbers were rearranged to the correct, original ordering. Of course, I have no proof, but I know what I saw with my own eyes, and it was suspicious. But since I am a nobody, it is not important. So I can drop it I suppose, since I never will receive an admission from anyone anyway. So be it.
Byron,
What does it matter? What? So what if it did happen? What does that mean?
Wow, Byron.
David
David, I do not know why it happened. It is obvious to Scott Gordon at least that it happened because of what he said in the comment stream in the “Great One Liners” post, where he said that a couple of comment numbers I referenced were incorrect, and gave me the numbers which were accurate at the time he gave them to me. But as of now the last time I looked, the numbering had returned to its original state (invalidating the numbers he gave in his comments). That is why it is important to me. Seeing something strange happening, under suspiciously coincidental circumstances and timing, and then not asking questions about it, does not normally fit into my nature. That is why it is (was) important to me, but unless I receive a straight, direct, and honest answer from the one who did it and for what reasons, I suppose I will have to be content with that.
Byron,
As a matter of fact, I just had 2 of my comments disappear on the Wes Kenney Motion thread. Tim is checking on it.
David
Well, now they’re back. I see them again. Strange.
David
OK, maybe it’s a WordPress thing, and I overreacted. That’s possible.
Byron,
We, here, at SBC Today, are sorry this has caused you so much anguish.
David
Vol,
When one looks around his basement and sees one’s only link to the outside world has malfunctioned, one does become filled with anguish.
Your sympathy is well placed in this case. :-)
David Worley, thanks.
CB Scott, one question: were you serious when you wrote comment #110 in the “Great One Liners” thread? It’s difficult to read you, sometimes. Thanks.
I’ll quote it here for easy reference. Did you mean the words you wrote below? Or were they simply to provoke a response out of me? Or do they serve some other purpose?
— Quote —
cb scott
July 4th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Byron,
I need to talk to you about one statement that you made in your last little rant for Debbie’s approval. Actually, it is my civic duty as an American here on the Fourth of July.
You stated the following:
“I am quite familiar with the SBC mantra over the last twenty-some-odd years of my life, which goes something like this, “get out of the house, go to an officially approved SBC church, vote Republican, get married, have kids, praise God.”
I am willing to make the sacrifice. Therefore let me interact for the sake of all Americans and Southern Baptists.
1. Yes, please get out of the house and find a real job so I, along with so many other hard working Americans, can stop paying your way while you do nothing.
2. Please do not join an “officially approved” Southern Baptist church. Your Voodoo theology is just not needed in SBC life. Publicly declare yourself a Mormon or a Muslim. Once the Muslims and Mormons in your community find out, they will be running to Southern Baptist churches, realizing how wrong they have been seeking help.
3. Do not become a Republican. You can help us best by declaring yourself an eternal Democrat. Publish your voting record in your local paper. I am sure that when people who know you see it they will vote in opposition. Those new votes will help the GOP far more than you becoming one of us.
4. Forget about marriage and kids. One of you is enough on such a small planet.
Byron,
Relating to………?
That’s what I want to know.
Just so the moderators will know, I posted from a different IP address because I was using my Verizon phone.