Instead of my comments this I am going to wait until the comment stream gets started. I will tell you that Representative Johnson is from Georgia. Thus, I will allow our Georgia resident and fellow blogger Peter Lumpkins free reign in his comments on his Georgia Representative’s thoughts. Of course Representative Johnson’s thoughts affect all of us so everyone’s thoughts on this man’s statement will be encouraged. Just remember to show respect for the office he holds, and do not disrespect his family. Enjoy!
Next on SBC Today:
The Top Blog Posts of the Week
9 Days Until the SBC Name Change Announcement
SBC Today will post the Name Change Task Force recommendation(s) as Breaking News as soon as it is announced to the SBC Executive Committee.
Previously posted on this issue: "The SBC Name Change: Why and Why Not" by Steve LemkeFollow Me On The Web!
SBC Today Subscription
Search SBC Today
Archives
Categories
Pingback: Tweets that mention Can an Island “Tip Over”? :: SBC Today -- Topsy.com
Kudos to the admiral for not further embarassing Rep. Johnson. To answer the question, no, I don’t think an island can tip over.
Hank Johnson is a practicing Buddhist.
He also supported the Healthcare Bill.
The President of the United States said of Hank Johnson:
“Hank is a true leader who represents the very best essence of a public servant.”
The President of the United States also supported the Healthcare Bill.
Johnson’s first act as a Congressman was to install Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House.
Congressman Johnson serves on the House Armed Services Committee.
Congressman Johnson is Chairman of the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Courts and Competition Policy.
Of the Healthcare Bill, Speaker of the House Pelosi said, “We have to pass the Bill to find out what is in it.”
Congressman Johnson fears Guam “will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize.”
Pelosi = Speaker of the House.
Johnson = Chairman of the House Judiciary Subcommittee and a member of the House Armed Services Committee.
Pelosi + Johnson = An increase in the American public’s consumption of Rolaids, Toms and Pepto-Bismol.
Barack Obama as President of the United States = A coming inability of the American public’s ability to buy Rolaids, Toms, and Pepto-Bismol.
America’s need for Rolaids, Toms and Pepto-Bismol due to Pelosi and Johnson + America’s inability to buy Rolaids, Toms and Pepto-Bismol due to President Obama = An America with a serious “belly ache.”
Oh my goodness….lol. How did the Admiral keep from laughing in this guys face? lol
I sure do hope that Hawaii wont tip over someday! lol
Peter, is this the best yall have got in Georgia?
David
Hi STEVEN,
I believe that you have given a truly Christian response when you wrote this: “Kudos to the admiral for not further embarassing Rep. Johnson.”
I am sharing from the Orthodox Christians: in nonor of Holy Saturday, the day before Easter. Enjoy.
Holy Saturday, according to [St.] Epiphanius of Cyprus.
“Something strange is happening … there is a great silence on earth today, a great silence and stillness. The whole earth keeps silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. God has died in the flesh and hell trembles with fear.
He has gone to search for our first parent, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow the captives Adam and Eve, he who is both God and the son of Eve. The Lord approached them bearing the cross, the weapon that had won him the victory. At the sight of him Adam, the first man he had created, struck his breast in terror and cried out to everyone: “My Lord be with you all.” Christ answered him: “And with your spirit.” He took him by the hand and raised him up, saying, “Awake, O sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will give you light”….
Well folks according to this report could it be that Rep. Johnson is correct? According to Marty Duren, Rep Johnson has been vindicated. However, I believe Duren is using satire as his post is labeled “humor”.
Blessings,
Tim
I’m not worried about islands capsizing; that would be idiotic.
What I’m concerned about is that all that weight on Guam might rotate the whole earth so Guam is at the bottom. I think that’d put me closer to the North Pole.
Perish the thought!
One thing is for certain: the notion that an island can “tip over” is about as scientifically ridiculous as the claim that this Earth we occupy is but 6,000 years old!
Both claims deserve an equal amount of laughter!
I love ridiculing democrats as much as the next guy, but Representative Johnson has explained his comments. He was speaking “tongue-in-cheek” about the fact that the addition of 25,000 soldiers and their families would strain the resources of the little island of Guam.
He did not believe that it would actually tip over and fall into the sea.
He says he was making a joke and no one got it. He is, as CB says, a Buddhist. He is a democrat which makes him wrong on most issues (sorry, I couldn’t resist).
But he is not a moron.
It sure didnt look like he was joking. I think the joking statement probably came much later after he realized how what he said sounded.
BDW, the Earth is just about 7 or 8 thousand years old. Why would I believe any different than what the Bible teaches? The flood could explain a lot of what the scientists say took millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and billions of years to do. And, for species to change into different species…now that’s as bad as believing that an island can tip over. lol
Also, everyone, the sad thing is that this fella from Georgia will probably be president someday. :(
David
His statements go to prove there is no excuse for “stupid”.
I even agree with CB today….except for the buddhist part and then it’s “who really cares”. He could just as easily be “stupid” and Christian or “stupid” and muslim…..stupid knows no religious boundaries.
Maybe you should restrain yourself from picking on the Congressman, volfan.
After all, if the Bible – your personal science textbook – had an example of an island tipping over, you’d be on the same page as the Congressman.
The idea that can islan can tip-over would still be ridiculous.
Brother BDW,
I knew Easter could not go by without you and I disagreeing. I was hoping it would, but… And I had such a good record of agreement with you over at BaptistLife forum. :)
Well, let me examine your statement;
While your analysis seems sound, your principle is missing a reality–the Bible does not speak of such scientific phenomena. The Bible speaks of scientific impossibilities such as; 24 hour days for creation, the earth standing still, a man being swallowed by a big fish and being vomited up alive, an axe head floating in water, a blind man being healed because another man puts a mud pack on his eyes, and wait for it–the greatest miracle the Bible speaks of a man being raised from the dead.
Thus, if we accept your broad brushed stroke of accepting only the scientifically impossible then the Resurrection should be denied. In the weekend that we celebrate the central miracle of our belief system and you present evidence that tells us we should not accept this scientifically flawed event.
You see, BDW, if I can accept a man rose from the dead then accepting the evidence from the same scripture that an axe head floated or the earth was created in 6 24 hour days is not any stretch at all. So, logic demands that if one rejects any other scientifically flawed event attested to by Scripture, then one must reject the scientifically flawed event we term The Resurrection. Are you saying that you reject the Resurrection?
Blessings,
Tim
BDW,
The Bible does not teach that islands tip over. If it did, I would believe it. And, if the Bible did teach that too many people on an island could tip it over, then it would be true. Big Daddy, my heart and my mind are surrendered to the Lord Jesus.
David
Big Daddy,
We both know the Bible does not say an island tipped over. That is a mote point.
Not only is it ridiculous for the Congressman to ask the question he did.
It is also ridiculous for you to stage this strawman argument of the possibility of a capsized island being in the Scripture in an effort to make Vol appear foolish for believing the Bible is God’s perfect revelation to man.
You know your argument is ridiculous. I know it is ridiculous. Vol knows it is ridiculous.
There is also something else that is ridiculous. it is ridiculous to think the Healthcare Bill is good for the future of this nation. It is ridiculous that Hank Johnson was elected to represent the 4th District of Georgia in the Congress of the United States.
Actually, Big Daddy, there are many ridiculous things happening in this nation and world at the moment. But one thing is certainly not ridiculous at this moment or at any moment in the past or the future.
For Vol, and a great host of other well-educated and some not so well-educated people to believe that God’s Word is a perfect treasury of His inerrant revelation to humanity. That is not ridiculous at all.
Big Daddy, when this whole planet is “capsized” and on fire and you and I are long gone, the Word of God will still stand perfect and unblemished, not capsized or burned.
My reading and understanding of the Bible does not reject the bodily Resurrection. Like your fellow Southern Baptist William Dembski, I have a healthy appreciation for science and readily recognize that the idea of a young earth is not supported by science. Moreover, like Dembski, I don’t view an alternate reading of Genesis as being incompatible with orthodox Christianity.
Volfan, however, has never come across as a fan of science. I’ve noted he seems to reject prevailing scientific viewpoints at every turn over the years. And he often rejects science with an arrogant attitude that asserts that his interpretation is absolutely right and any different interpretation is absolutely wrong. When Mark Noll wrote The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind he surely had “evangelicals” like Volfan in mind.
Brother BDW,
So you are saying the creation narrative is not scientifically flawed, just the interpretation of a 24 hour day is? Ok, I will give you that. Now, are you saying the axe head floated?
Blessings,
Tim
Dig Daddy,
It is not that Vol believes “….his interpretation is absolutely right and any different interpretation is absolutely wrong….” It is that Vol believes every Word of the Scripture is right. There is a vast difference in what you say Vol believes and what he actually believes.
How is Vol’s believing God’s Word to be perfect a display of an “arrogant attitude”?
Now, you can call me arrogant for a lot of reasons and be right. I can call you arrogant for a lot of reason and I would be right also.
But for you to call Vol arrogant for believing the Word of God to be perfect is like unto what you said of the Congressman asking if the island could capsize.
It is just plain “ridiculous.”
BTW, Big Daddy,
You could do better than to trot Mark Noll out here can’t you?
Hi BDW,
Here is an interesting quote in Gaudium et Spes regarding the relationship of science and faith in which you might find meaning:
“”…methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, CAN NEVER CONFLICT with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God.
The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the Hand of God in spite of himself,
for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are.”
CB,
Have you read Noll? Noll is, after all, a widely respect Evangelical in the Reformed tradition and I do believe that his book was well received even by many evangelicals.
Your comment implies that to “believe the Word of God” does not involve interpreting the word of God. The text has to be interpreted. Any claim to the contrary is ridiculous.
I await your response. Of course that response will come only after you’ve first read and interpreted my words.
Brother BDW,
I’m thinking that you are speaking to me concerning the second paragraph of your last comment.
If the Bible is scientifically flawed in places, which is what you are saying, then it begs to show a flaw in your logic. Logic demands you cannot reject the Bible is scientifically flawed, then point to a scientific flaw that you accept as fact.
Blessings,
Tim
Big Daddy,
We have already had the “Noll conversation” a couple of years ago, I think. But, to answer you fairly, I would not have made that statement had I not read Noll, the Vandy historian, in the past.
My comment does not imply that to “believe the Word of God” does not involve interpreting the word of God.”
My comment does “not just imply” but absolutely states that you are misinterpreting Vol’s words wrongly.
And it is your interpretation of Vol’s words that is ridiculous.
Big Daddy,
Have you read the Australian, Carl Wieland’s review of “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind”?
It would be worth you time to get his perspective on Noll’s work.
Big Daddy,
It has been fun as always, but I have to an appointment and I have to go so I can’t stay for the rest of this little set-to.
Nonetheless, I trust you have a wonderful Easter tomorrow worshipping the Risen Lord. BTW, I don’t doubt for one minute you believe He is risen and that you know Him in His soul-saving grace.
In Christ Free,
cb
Gentlemen,
There is something important to remember.
Consider the following for a just a moment:
Jews for thousands of years have prayed over bread,
“Blessed are You, Lord Our God, King of the Universe, Who brings forth bread from the Earth.”
The Holy Scriptures teaches us that God brings forth bread from the Earth. We know this.
But the Bible does not list the thousands and thousands of detailed steps in exact sequence of the process of ‘PHOTOSYNTHESIS’: the process that captures the Sun’s energy inside of green plant cells, in the form of a simple sugar that is the base of our entire food chain.
If the Bible described, in complete detail, all of the thousands of sequences in photosynthesis, then the Bible would be of an immense size.
And, if the Bible described, in detail, all of the truly infinite workings of Our Creator, the size of the Holy Scriptures would enlarge to the size of the entire Universe.
Instead, the Bible reveals that which we need to know.
So we also may say simply, in the way of the ancient ones of Israel, this prayer:
“Blessed are You, Lord Our God, King of the Universe, Who brings forth bread from the Earth.”
Dear me Mr BDW…here in the antipodes we are restricted in our education system to a purely secular humanist viewpoint, yet growing up among atomic scientists (the local reactor was in our back yard) I learnt a healthy skepticism for science-so-called.
It may amaze you that there are no “scientists” that can give you the assured results you so crave. And if they do under the name “scientist” rest assured they are trading on the term for their own advantage. My friends from my early days were specialists in the fields of radio isotope research (including carbon dating)… the head researcher was a 6 day creationist and early earther. Another was head of British Atomic Energy (Dr. Peter Holland). I anticipate that you have a list of accredited atomic specialists who you know personally supporting your viewpoint. Sure some take a longer view and some a shorter view. In this area of life, your support group will have tended to dictate to you (consciously or unconsciously) the epistemic issues that have lead you to adopt a rationalist ideology that is discrepant regarding the things you want to believe and the things your cronies dictate you shouldn’t believe.
I had the rather unusual experience of knowing personally the author of one of our science text books here in Australia. He wrote the text book whilst staying with my grandparents in the outback as a 21 year old woodwork teacher …. to “keep him out of trouble”. It was the standard text book here for nearly thirty years. What science background did he have? None. What research credentials did he have?
None.
BDW, have a healthy skepticism for those who dictate that early earthers are dysfunctional intellectually. It may surprise you that some of those who are bonafide researchers do take an early earth position. Or would you have them marched off and shot as sub-standard?
Big Daddy,
I choose to believe God’s Word over any educated guess of man. Man was not there when the world was created. He was not there, and thus does not know for certainty anything that he talks about today. Even scientists…some Christians, some not…have huge disagreements over evolution…huge. In my geology class at the University of TN at Martin, my prof stated that science changes every 5 to 10 years. Every 5 to 10 years, Big Daddy. Science changes it’s mind. What you believe today…told to you by some scientist, may not be what they believe 15 years from now. BTW, this is the same prof that mocked a young Earth in my class. He asked how many believe in a young Earth. I held my hand up. He thought it was quite amusing.
Big Daddy, I also believe that Goliath was 9 feet tall; that a literal, worldwide flood covered the Earth; and that Jesus healed the blind.
Why? Because the Bible says so.
David
See, the thing is the moderate/liberal filth that still infects the SBC and exists in the CBF have to believe there are flaws in the Bible. It makes it easier to dismiss the word of God so they don’t have to submit to it and obey it. If they admitted that the Bible is the inerrant, infalible, inspired word of God that it is, they would also have to admit it sits in judgement on all their unbiblical positions. They’re not gonna do that, I’ll promise you.
Brother BDW,
It seems that my precious brother from Down under has weighed in on this subject. While I respect Dr. Dembski, I must surrender to my brother Steve as he speaks from personal knowledge of Atomic Scientist whose professional trade is carbon dating.
Blessings,
Tim
BDW & all of the old-earthers,
Dembski is wrong, wrong, wrong. I believe I have said as much before and will continue to do so. I believe his acquiescence to scientific dogma is unwarranted in any way. His position regarding the retroactive application of the fall of man in Genesis 3 is a nice bit of logical reconstruction, but it is also as much of a reading into the text as is the age-day or gap theories of theistic evolution. While I appreciate Dembski’s work relating to ID, I cannot support his attempt in relating science and theology in such a way that makes the biblical text the handmaiden of science.
That being said…I think I have proof of a capsized island. Some people call it Atlantis! :-D
2 Peter 3:8 contains much wisdom to think about regarding the ways of the Lord that are ‘far above our ways’:
“8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.”
Perhaps a little humility is in order for all ‘old’ Earthers and ‘young’ Earthers. There is much we do not know. And even more that we cannot understand if we did ‘know’ it. But we were born with a God-given gift given to us to ‘want to know’ and to ‘want to understand’.
When this gift is accepted, in humility and in honesty, science becomes the handmaid of the Holy Scriptures, not its rival. “The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the Hand of God in spite of himself,
for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are.” (G.S.) We must honestly examine what we find in Creation, as a way of honoring the Creator of all that is seen and unseen.”
Scott Gordon,
Can you offer a rationale for your appreciation of Dembski’s Intelligent Design work? While ID offers a real crtique of evolution, ID also buys into much of that “scientific dogma” which you reject including *some* principles of evolution. What exactly about Intelligent Design do you appreciate? Young Earthers generally do not express appreciation for Intelligent Design as certainly the scholarship of creationists like Kurt Wise and IDers like William Dembski are NOT compatible.
BDW again your epistemic presuppositions influence the outcomes of your reasoning. Who said that a. Rationality is opposed to faith. Only you.
Who says that ID is opposed to an early earth thesis?
Only you. ohhhh I am sounding like Vince Clarke..or the Platters
Only you
can make the darkness bright
Only you and you alone
can thrill me like you do
and fill my heart with love for only you …..
While some may “say” there is incompatability, the onnus is to prove it… which you cannot.
Please make sure that you understand where your epistemology is coming from and where it is leading you.
Rhetoricaqlly what are the sources of authority that you recognise? and what are the relative voices that you give to those authorities?
Steve
Big Daddy,
Do I take it then that you have not read Carl Wieland’s review of The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind?
A lot of these comments are not very “Christian” like. Calling someone an idiot is not something Jesus would do. Look around and see, you are judging people when you say stuff like that.
Jama,
You need to contact me to verify who you are. This is the first time you have commented here on SBC Today so I am allowing you a little more grace that I normally would allow and anonymous commenter. I will allow your present comment to stand and will be glad to interact with it, but if I do not get an email from you so I can verify who you are then I will be forced to remove both your comment and my response.
I had a three paragraph response ready for you. However, I thought better of it. I went back and read every comment. I do admit to skimming the comments but I was looking for one particular word. That word was “idiot”. I did not find that word there so in order to address your concern I need you to point to me the place where someone has called someone else an “idiot”.
Blessings,
Tim