It’s really sad to hear some people whine and cry and complain about the way that some Christians have messed up in the past, or about all the bad things that they think are happening now. It’s really sad to hear someone get up in front of some crowd in a coffee shop, or a poetry reading group, and apologize for being a Christian. It’s a sad day when people listen to the lost crowd, and they listen to the lost crowds’ shouts of “hypocrites,” and “mean, intolerant buffoons,” and then some Christians apologize to this angry, rebellious crowd for being a Christian.
Maybe you haven’t seen this video of a young man making this poetic “speech” about being sorry for being a Christian. He even uses the F word a couple of times in his “poem.” It makes you wonder why he felt the need to use the F word in a poem, where he was going after Christians and others for all the ills of Christendom that he sees. You can see his “poem” on this site http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EieFdXy_HwM on youtube. I warn you now that he has a potty mouth, and he uses the F word. But, he recites this “poem” to the jeers of the crowd. They’re especially happy, and you can hear the laughter, when he apologizes right off the bat for being a Christian.
Well, I’m not sorry for being a Christian. I’m not sorry for calling sin what it is…sin. I’m not sorry for saying that sin will be judged by God. Why am I not sorry? Because a lost man’s sins will be judged by God. And, the lost crowd needs to hear that. How can a lost man be saved, until he sees his need of a Savior? He cant. So, why would I apologize for calling sin what it is, and for telling people that God is not happy with our sins? I know that some lost people will call that intolerance, and they’ll think it’s mean and narrow; but it’s the truth. The truth shall set you free.
Also, I’m sad about the loss of life at the hands of the Crusaders and the Catholic Church. But, why should I apologize for the Crusades that happened hundreds of years ago. I wasnt there. I didn’t do it. So, why should I apologize for something that happened hundreds of years ago. Why, it wasn’t even my Church that did this thing. It wasn’t a Southern Baptist Church. It wasn’t any Churches that came out of the Reformation. So, why should I, a 48 year old Believer, apologize for something that some misguided people did a long time ago? Why would any Christian feel the need to bring this up and apologize for it? Why would this make anyone be sorry that they’re a Christian. I’m not sorry that I’m a Christ Follower, just because of what some knights did back in the dark ages.
BTW, while we should love gay people, I’m certainly not sorry for calling homosexuality what it is. It is sin. It is sin that God will judge. Now, I know that God will also judge the adulterers and the liars and the thieves and all other sinners. But, this young man seems to be saying that he’s sorry for calling homosexuality a sin. Well, young man, it is a sin. And, those people, who die in this sin, will go to Hell. They need to be saved, and I do pray that they’ll be saved and go to Heaven. I love gay people. I do not hate gay people. I wish that everyone of them would get saved today. I certainly hope that I get to spend eternity with all the gay people in this world, because they repented and put their faith in Jesus. I really do. But, should I apologize for calling homosexual sex what it is? A sin. Never.
Also, I hate that there are homeless people, and I really hate that some men beat their wives. I wish every homeless person had a home, and I wish that every wife beater would have to spend 30 minutes with CB Scott in a locked room by themselves. But, you know what? There will always be homeless people. Jesus said that the poor will always be here. And, some people are homeless because of the bad choices they’ve made in life, and people will continue to make bad choices, and do things like drink alcohol, use drugs, gamble, etc. And, these choices will cause them and their family to suffer financially, and in many other ways. Why should I, as a Christ Follower, apologize for the homeless? I didn’t make them that way, nor can we give them all a home. Some of them dont even want a home! Also, why should I apologize and be sorry that I’m a Christian, because of what some drunken, mean man did to his wife? Christians didn’t make this man into a wife beater. Christians cant stop men from being wife beaters. There will always be mean, ornery men out there, who will beat women and children. That’s just a sad fact of life, and a result of the fall of man. So, why would this make me be sorry for being a Christian? I don’t get it.
Also, what Indian tribe was wiped out in the name of the Church? I thought it was done, because white men wanted the land. Some of it was done, because white men thought that gold was on the land that the Indians claimed belonged to them. Why bring the Church into this? Was General Custer a Christian attacking Indian tribes for some Church? I mean, really; is some school out there teaching young people that the Church wiped out Indian tribes in America?
As I listened to this video, I was also left wondering if all Christendom should be blamed for the child abuse that has happened in some Churches? I was left wondering if preaching the Gospel was something that a Christian should apologize for? And, did Christians bring in the plague? Really? And, maybe he doesn’t know about all the 15 year old girls and others that have been helped by all of the Christian pregnancy centers and Christian counselors that have helped women deal with the awful affects of abortion? Another thing, did Christians start wars between the nations? Did Christians start WW I; WW II; or the Gulf War? I don’t recall Dr. R. G. Lee declaring war on Germany. I don’t recall Dr. A. T. Robertson declaring war on Japan. Do yall? What’s this guy talking about in this poem? Why would anyone say that this poem is something that needed to be heard by all Christ Followers? What’s the point of this young man’s poem?
This poem reminds me of my college days, where we had some flaky people floating around, who were anti-Church. You know the types. They don’t belong to a Church. They don’t like to commit to anything. They’d rather show up at a college, Bible study group every now and then; but they don’t get into commitment. They’re unsound in their doctrine, and they really don’t like for anyone to help them understand the Bible better. They’d rather complain and whine about all the bad things that they see in their minds about the Church. Every thing is looked at thru negative glasses concerning the Church and sound doctrine. I saw many young people on my college campus, back in my college days, who were just flaky and out there, in deep center field, on the fringe, who just saw everything negatively. Everything was bad, and they were the ones, who could fix it, of course.
Well, I’m glad to be a Christian. When I look at how most of the hospitals and orphanages in our world were started by Christians, I rejoice. When I look at all the institutions of higher learning that Christians started, I rejoice. When I look at all the people who’ve been helped by Churches and Pastors and Christian counselors, then I rejoice. When I look at all the millions of people, who’ve been saved thru the years, by the witness of Christians and missionaries, I rejoice. When I look at all the people, who have been ministered to by the prayers of faithful Christian people, I rejoice. When I look at all the marriages that have been not only helped, but saved, due to the grace of God coming thru a Pastor’s sermons and counsel and prayers and encouragement, then I rejoice that I’m a Christian. When I look at the people, who were at the brink of suicide, but some Christian helped them find hope in the Lord Jesus, then I rejoice. When I think of the disaster relief teams that go out in the name of Jesus from SB Churches, and they help people in incredible, heartbreaking disasters, then I rejoice. When I think about all the people that have been fed, their electric bills paid, their water bills paid, clothes bought, etc. ; paid by Churches all over the USA and the world, then I rejoice. And, I’m talking about every week, SB Churches in little towns and big cities all across this land, helping people keep the lights and the heat on; feeding children, etc.; then I rejoice.
I’m not sorry for being a Christian. I’m thrilled to be a Christ Follower. I’m excited about being a child of God. I’m ecstatic about what God is doing thru the Church. I’m delighted that God uses Christians to do so much good in our world. Sorry? Apologize? Why? Why should we apologize for being a Christian? Aren’t you glad to be Christian?
They have already started Tee-Shirt production for Biden’s dropping of the ‘F-bomb’ yesterday. Maybe those who think Tse’s poem is so edifying to the Gospel can start production on Chris Tse ‘Dropping the F-bomb (4Jesus)’ Tee-Shirts.
–chadwick
David-
Chris Tse is not apologizing for being a Christian. He is apologizing for things that have been done and are being done in the name of Christians that are not reflective of Christ. I would encourage you to listen again from that perspective. I did not like the use of the F-word in the video either, but I would imagine the Philippian church was a little offended by Paul’s use of the word skubalon in his letter to them. Sometimes offensive language makes us take notice of things we might otherwise miss. I would not condone it or use it, but I cannot deny that it does have a particular emphasis in this video.
I agree with you that Christians have done a lot of good in the world. We are quick to point that out. We have also seen a lot of evil done in the name of Jesus. Many who need Jesus in our world does not see any difference between the knights in the Crusades, the wingnuts who blow up abortion clinics, and the men and women who work in Disaster Relief. They are all “Christians” and therefore suspect.
Chris’ slam poem was simply an attempt to acknowledge the sins of the past to get to the real heart of the matter. Jesus would not have endorsed any of those actions- hatred, war, murder, etc. It still does not change who He is and what He has done. Sometimes an apology is what it takes to get a real conversation started.
Ryan
Chadwick,
lol. And, let’s hope not.
Ryan,
I do not agree with you. Sorry. I saw this whole thing as a complaining, whining, negative thing. I would hate for lost people to watch it. He did apologize for being a Christian. Watch the very front of the video, and the very end of the video. He made statements thru out the video that are not only unwise, but they’re also just wrong for a Christian to say. I understand that he was trying to apologize for all the bad things that have been done in the name of God in the past. I understand that perfectly. But, do you not see that he’s apologizing for things that Christians have not done. Why? That he’s apologizing for calling sin what it is? Why? That he’s lumping every ill of society of the past into the plate of Christians? Why? Why would he feel the need to do this? Why would this be looked upon as a good thing to do? Why would any Christian endose this? And, his use of the F word was really bad. Why did he feel the need to use this word? Shock value? To show the lost crowd that Christians are cool? To fit in with the lost crowd? Or, could this just be how he talks? I dont know.
So, I just cant agree with your assesment of this poem. I just cant agree with the attitude that some people have…that this poem reflects. I just dont like some of the negative attitudes that some people have towards Christians and the Church, and how they seem to only see the bad; and I’m talking about Christian people, even some Pastors out there. I dont like that some people out there like to be negative and point out only the bad and weak things about Christians and the Church, and they act like they’re the saviors of Christendom. That they have the answers to what ails the Church. lol.
Anyway, Ryan, I believe this poem is full of weaknesses, errors, and displays a real negative attitude towards the Church and Christians. I really wonder if it’s really an attempt to “fit in” with the lost crowd; to make the lost crowd like Believers more. I just think it goes in the wrong direction.
David
David, thank you for your fervency.
Ryan, I fully agree with your perspective.
I wonder if someone can post a biblical explanation of why profanity as we understand it today is inherently sinful. I find that a lot of the same people who condemn “typical” cuss words use “Christian” alternatives all the time, words like crap, freaking, darn, etc. The meanings and intentions are the exact same, so what in Scripture tells us that the way a particular set of letters is strung together determines the pure or sinful character of our language? As Ryan pointed out, Paul in Philippians 3:8 uses the Greek equivalent of our “S” word. Would anyone accuse Paul of speaking that way for mere shock value or in order to make Christians of his day look cool?
I realize the scope of this post is not just to chide Tse for his use of the F word, but the charge keeps coming up so a little Scriptural explanation would be appreciated.
Hi DAVID,
I read your post and thought about it.
In my faith we have have a kind of ‘sin’ that a Christian commits when they ‘fail’ to do what is just and what is right. This kind of ‘sin’ is called the ‘sin of omission’. I am guilty of it a lot. And I know it.
It happens when we feel ‘called’ to respond in a situation and we fail to respond in a way that brings Christ’s love to others.
There are many occasions where people ‘look the other way’;
occasions where we ignore those who suffer ‘outside the gate’ while we are thanking God for His Goodness to us;
and occasions where we ‘cross the road’ to the other side to avoid stopping to aid the broken that God has placed in our path, failing to love them as the Samaritan loved the man beaten by robbers, somewhere on the road between Jerusalem and Jericho.
And as for that very great sin of ‘thank God I am not like that other sinner’, well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa there also.
You know, David, if Christian people need to ‘apologize’, maybe it is more for what we do not do in the Name of the Lord. He has asked us to love and He has given us the grace to do it in a way that we could not do on our own. And He has asked us to keep His Commandments if we love Him: to ‘bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the Law of Christ’.
So perhaps a little ‘humility’ in the Name of Christ is not such a bad beginning, David, for any Christian person. We owe to Lord Christ everything we are and have. We are to be His servants, not judges of one another. He calls to us to care for one another, as He cared for us.
We Christians haven’t done that, have we?
David
Thanks for writing this and giving a perspective that has been tempered by years of wisdom.
I am not sorry for being a Christian.
Robin
Christaine
I believe both David and I are not against a little humility, in fact, for me personally, I am for a whole lot of humility. But what this guy did on the video way surpassed “little.” I saw nothing but anger, arrogance, and condemnation against a whole religion without taking into consideration the good things Christians have done throughout history in the name of Christ.
My question is if things have been so terrible because of Christianity, how would the world be without the Christian witness?
David,
Your post reminds me of this song:
“What are sneaking around for?
Who are we trying to please?
Shrugging off sin, apologizing,
Like we’re spreading some kind of disease.
I’m saying ‘No way. No Way.’”
“I’m Not Ashamed,” by the Newsboys.
Les
I lean toward agreeing with David here, but “tempered by years of wisdom” ? That’s hilarious.
Hi ROBIN,
You wrote \’My question is if things have been so terrible because of Christianity, how would the world be without the Christian witness?\’
I will always have this question: What would the world be like if we really lived our faith in Christ with all of our strength, and minds, and hearts, and souls? We have a prayer in my faith: \’Come Holy Spirit and enlighten the hearts of Thy faithful, and enkindle in them the fire of Thy Divine Love. . . and Thou shalt renew the face of the world.’
If ‘Christians’ ever get it together to even TRY to live the Gospel in all of its fullness, can you imagine the effect this would have on those who do not know Him? Can you imagine the effect it would have on the whole of the Christianity? I can imagine. I can because of this part of one of the prayers Christ taught us to say: ‘Thy Will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven’.
So Beautiful. And with the gifts of His grace, it is possible.
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L’s,
Another question that you must have forgotten to answer in another thread that might be useful here was the one I asked you about Sheri Klouda. Remember?
You often use her situation to condemn everything Southern Baptist. Maybe since you are so concerned with our failures and particularly with Sheri Klouda, maybe it would be appropriate for you to answer the question now. Here it is again:
“I wonder how may of you who constantly bring up her situation actually ministered to her in her time of financial need?” Did you “stop to aid the broken” as you say? Or did you pass on the other side of the road all the while talking about how Southern Baptists have failed?
L’s, hypocrisy often comes in piles of false piety about what others have failed to do.
C.B.
You wrote this: ‘You often use her situation to condemn everything Southern Baptist.’
C.B., you just lost your credibility with me. I thought you were better than that. I am sad.
Love, L’s
Nick,
You asked, “if someone can post a biblical explanation of why profanity as we understand it today is inherently sinful.”
That’s easy, so I’ll take that one. How about Colossians 3:8, “But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.” If the word referred to above does not qualify as “filthy language,” I don’t know what does. Of course there are other similar biblical passages.
Don’t fall into the trap of “being cool” or “getting people’s attention” or “going for a cheap thrill” by using filthy language that God condemns. Ministers have a higher calling than that.
Words like “darn” are in no way similar to this corrupt, offensive, dirty language. Speak against them if you want, but they are certainly not equivalent to language that debases and defiles everything.
David R. Brumbelow
Nick,
What David B. said. Also, there are words that are borderline bad. Words that society consider not as bad, or as filthy. The F word is way beyond the border. And, BTW, saying a pile of manure is not the same as saying the S word, either.
Les,
I like the Newsboys. That song is a good one. A few songs from Toby Mac also come to mind, as well.
David
David, I appreciate your exhortation not to fall into a trap of wanting to be cool by using filthy language, but I assure you, I am by grace not facing that danger presently. I grew up in the most legalistic of traditions where unbiblical restrictions abounded, so now I am looking for scriptural support for everything that I do not consider to be explicitly put forth in the Bible. And since the actual F word does not appear in Scripture, I think it is at least worth a discussion. I agree that in many cases, the modern use of the F word does fall under the prohibition against filthy communication. But no word is in itself (key phrase “in itself”) filthy. There is no way to say that the simple stringing together of the letters K, U, F, and C (rearranged for those sensitive to the word) is inherently filthy. Paul used a street-slang term for excrement in Philippians 3:8. How is that not filthy? Yet obviously Paul had a purpose that made the use of the word acceptable. What about all the retellings of sexual immorality in the OT? Those accounts might fall under the heading “filthy language” today. I’m not trying to justify anything and I’m not looking to discuss what circumstances may make use of the F word acceptable, but I don’t think the issue is as cut and dry as a lot of people make it out to be. Words have moral value based on how we use them, not based on the word itself. No word is inherently sinful. Take a look at the slang term for a woman’s private parts that starts with P. This word shows up as a girl’s nickname in the 19th century children’s book by E. Nesbit called Five Children and It. It had no vulgar connotation whatsoever back then, and was safe to use among adults and children alike. Look at where it is now. Is the F word appropriate to use among God’s people? Probably not in most settings. But to say the issue is closed based on Colossians 3:8 and other “filthy language” passages, I’m not sure we’re allowed that.
Thanks David for your thoughts. But Paul did not merely say “pile of manure” as we understand the phrase in English today. Study the Greek word he uses there if you’re interested. As I said above, the Apostle uses a street-slang term which is the equivalent to a “cuss” word in our present culture.
I’m not trying to embrace or encourage the use of profane speech. Take away the morality issue and cuss words still sound unintelligent and undignified. What I am saying is let’s not call inherently sinful what Scripture does not.
Grace to all,
Nick
P.S. I am sorry for taking away from the main thrust of this post. In retrospect, it probably hasn’t been worth our time or energy.
Nick
I don’t know if a street slang word as Paul used in Philippians would be the equivalent of a cuss word such as the F-bomb used today.
Paul even warns the Ephesians, “4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.”
Peter O’Brien sees this as a warning to avoid sins of speech that are sexually obscene:
“The warning of v. 3 about avoiding sexual sins is here continued in the triad of terms that refer to sinful speech: obscenity, foolish talk, and coarse joking about sex are to be avoided as entirely inappropriate among those who are saints.”
Peter Thomas O’Brien, The Letter to the Ephesians, The Pillar New Testament commentary (Grand Rapids, Mich.: W.B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1999), 360.
The “F” word would definitely fall into that category since it connotates a sexual activity whether he or anyone else considers it street slang or not.
Nick,
I dont think that it’s been a waste of time. Trying to be holy is never a waste of time, and trying to understand the Bible is never a waste of time. I do appreciate that you’re trying to line up everything that you believe with the Bible, and what the Bible clearly teaches. I, too, set out on that course many years ago.
I do know the Greek word that you’re referring to from Philippians. It means, garbage, or rubbish, or waste; and it can also refer to dung, or manure. Like I said, it was not really a curse word. Although, it was pretty strong language. Also, the prophet Isaiah used the word translated as “filthy rags” in the KJV in Isaiah 64:6. This word means a woman’s menstrual clothe. Pretty strong words used here, as well.
But, Colossians is still clear that we shouldnt use filthy language. In other passages, we’re told to not use coarse language. Could this not mean what society looks upon as filthy and coarse? I mean, you’re correct that certain words are not mentioned in the Bible. Yet, we’re commanded to talk in vulgar, coarse, filthy language; nor are we to tell nasty jokes.
I guess I’m saying that in our culture, the F word is very vulgar and nasty and filthy. So is the S word. So, dont you think that it should not be used?
David
L’s,
Again, you are hypocritical. At no time have I ever had credibility with you and we both know that. You have been in diametric opposition to every thing I believe and embrace for close to two years now. And that includes the biblical gospel.
The truth is that you know you have used the Klouda story to bash Southern Baptists and all the while have never done one single thing to help her yourself.
The reason you come here to spew your passive-aggressive venom is because the Wild Geese Farm in Oklahoma has closed down comments and you are looking for a new place to sale your Liberation Theology laced Snake-oil. And that is all it is L’s. The “faith” you say you have is not even within the parameters of true Roman Catholicism. It seems to be a hybrid of the Social Gospel mixed with the strong blood of Liberation Theology.
L’s you need to be born again or you are going to hell. May God convict you of your lostness in such a way that you cannot eat or sleep until you come to grips with the reality of your lostness before a just and righteous God that you may be able to repent and believe the biblical gospel.
Robin and David, great thoughts, and I agree with you both. Thanks for not knowing me yet loving me enough for the Kingdom’s sake to humbly instruct me in righteousness.
Blessings,
Nick
I had a lot more to say and have decided it does not need to be said. I’ll just say I agree with David Worley and Robin Foster. Also, Nick, I really appreciate your attitude. I think all of us could have a great time fellowshipping together.
David R. Brumbelow
Hi C.B.
Well, I suppose now we both feel better, both having had ‘tantrums’.
In any case, I really don’t think you have a clue about my faith.
I don’t ‘proselytize’, but I do recommend that you sit down with a priest and ask questions. Wherever you are getting your infoc about my religion, they have ‘used you’ and you have let them use you.
The interesting thing, C.B., is that I have respected you very much as an honorable man. And that IS because of my Catholic upbringing. We have ‘respect’ for those who are not of our faith. I have never thought less of you because we did not share the same ‘denomination’.
You don’t have the same faith as my grandmother, of blessed memory, who was a Southern Baptist. I do know that, now. She was born in 1881 and passed away in l960. I never heard her curse anyone to hell. My grandfather treated Grandmother with great respect, as befitting the behavior of a Christian gentleman.
I think that the difference between you and Grandmother is that my Grandmother was not a ‘fundamentalist’. But she was a kind woman and during the Great Depression, she fed many hungry people who came to her farmhouse and then she gave them extra food to take home to their families. There must be more than ‘one kind’ of Southern Baptist. I think I am glad that I descend from one like my Grandmother. I honor her memory, and you cannot destroy or change my respect for the Christian witness of her faithful life. When I think of Southern Baptist people, I think of Grandmother first. I always will.
I am sorry that you did not have someone like her to guide you in your faith, C.B. I know that, if you did, you would not be inclined to curse anyone to hell. Something nice about Grandmother: her name was ‘Lucy’, which means ‘the Light’.
Be peaceful.
Love, L’s
David B., I trust that opportunity isn’t too far off :-)
Dear Brothers,
I saw Nick’s request for why acting like the world and using the world’s filthy language is explicitly denounced in Scripture. I didn’t respond because I suspected Nick only wanted to have a “vain conversation.” His subsequent posts substantiate my suspicions. If Christians cannot even agree that the “F” word is “coarse and filthy,” I feel sorry for the American church. How far we have fallen. And to say that “words” have no “inherent meanings” but are just strings of letters is almost beyond comprehension. Nick can blast away at me all he wants and give me all his thoughtless pablum on the subject. The point is this: you can always tell a fool–you just can’t tell ‘em much. I feel sorry for people like Nick that can read the plain words of Scripture and still get it wrong.
L’s,
You are right. I know nothing of your Grandmother. And all I know of her granddaughter is what you put in print on blog comment threads. As I read your comments it becomes most obvious that you are not a born-again child of God, but you are of your father the Devil. And if you do not repent and believe the gospel, you will die in your lost condition and go to hell.
L’s, I have not cursed you to hell. You were born condemned to hell and if you do not repent and believe the biblical gospel you will continue in your lostness and go to hell of which you so well deserve.
Consider the words of Jesus; “he that believeth on Him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
L’s, you are lost just as I was once lost. We both deserve hell. Me probably far more than you for the sins committed in my lost state were terrible and often brutal and without any hint of mercy. And my sins after having been saved have been legion and to my own shame I must admit. But by God’s grace I have been saved and will not go to hell as I deserve. You, L’s are still of your father the Devil and you will spend everlasting-to-everlasting in hell if you do not repent of your sin and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God.
David-
As I have watched the conversation unfold today I have debated posting again. I am sad that most of the discussion has focused on Nick’s defense of Chris’ profanity. I understand his viewpoint but I do not agree with it. I think there is too much speed to jump on the shock value train in a lot of my fellow younger believers today. I have been there. I understand, but I know from experience that the end result is not going to be good for the Kingdom.
The real concern I have is that the focus in this thread on 2 words has led us away from the discussion of the other 3:35 of poetry. I understand that some of you are offended, sad, angry, disinterested in Chris’ assessment of things that have been done in the name of Jesus. I get that. But here is the issue, you cannot DENY that they have occurred.
David, you mentioned in your very polite response to me, that he is apologizing for things Christians have NOT done. I would agree with you. I think Chris would as well. The people who committed many of the atrocities he mentions may have called themselves “Christians” but they DID NOT belong to Christ. To you and I, that is a critical difference. I suspect to Chris’ audience it is no difference at all. That is the point of the poem. It is one person, who does know Jesus, saying that he is distancing himself from those who claim to have represented his faith, his Savior and done so to justify horrible acts. He is not sorry he is a Christian, he is just sorry that some people who say they are Christians do awful things and he is sorry that they have represented Christ poorly to the gathered audience. That is what he means by “I’m a Christian. I’m sorry.” (This may seriously damage my credibility with some of you but there is a similar story told (without profanity) in Donald Miller’s book Blue Like Jazz…whatever you think of Don the story is worth a read)
There is another aspect of Chris’ poetry that you have problems with. You feel that he is not interested in calling sin sin or dealing with sin. I am assuming (and correct me if I am wrong) that you re referring to his apology for hating gays and for his comments on getting drunk on Saturday. I agree and I bet Chris would agree that both drunkenness and homosexuality are sins. I know you would agree with that assessment as well. The issue is not calling a sin a sin but how one deals with that sin with someone who does not know Jesus. Lost people are going to act like lost people and we gain no ground for the Kingdom by simply telling them how lost they are. We need to tell them how to get home. The problem Chris, sees and to be honest I often see, with the church and Christians at large is that we are quick to condemn and slow to befriend those who do not know Jesus as Savior. This is the opposite of the ministry of Jesus and the opposite of the admonition of Paul to the Corinthian church. We should be hard on each other and merciful to those who have not yet tasted mercy.
David, I am not sure where you serve or what the community and culture are like around your church. I am sure you work hard to love the people who are in your community and to share the Gospel with them. I do not doubt that Chris’ poem would have gone over like the proverbial “fart in church” in your community. In my community, where I serve, Chris’ comments would have gained him a hearing. Were they negative? Yes. Were they harsh on some aspects of the church? Yes. But his honesty with the shortcomings of the church, would have earned him a hearing for the Savior. That is what it is all about, people hearing the Gospel, unfettered by cultural baggage, and getting a chance to respond to Jesus.
I hope I have been as gracious and charitable in my response as you were in yours. I pray God’s grace on you and your church, David. May His Kingdom advance!
Ryan
I haven’t heard anyone say exactly why the “F-word” is such a problem. Maybe I overlooked it, but all I have seen are declarations that it is. Granted it is street or vulgar slang for sex, and comes from a German root (in which language I am told it does not have the gutter associations it has in English). The real problem is when someone yells, “F— you!” what they are actually claiming is the power to have sex with you, whether you want it or not! It is one of those fairly uncommon instances in English when the subject (the first person personal pronoun) is understood: “(I) f— you!” In other words, to say that to to threaten or claim the power to rape, figuratively if not sexually.
John
“You, L’s are still of your father the Devil\”
C.B, , this really sounds more like something an extremist Islamic fundamentalist would say. Where did you actually get this stuff? Are you becoming an \’extremist\’ fundamentalist?
I am concerned for you.
You know, people have noticed the similarities. between both the fundamentalist-extremists in Islam and the fundamentalist-extremists in Christianity, because of the nature of how these extremists treat other people:
Both groups practice curses and epithets, outright repeated lies, attempts to instill fearfulness, threats, contempt which is acted out, disrespect for women, disrespect for those who are different, overt references to the \’powers\’ of Satan (whose power over us Christ defeated on the Cross, by the way), and at worst, threats or acts of harm to others and/or to their families. We are seeing these behaviors now in our country, directed towards politicians and their families.
BOTH groups are self-righteous to the extreme, and in their sin of pride, and self idolatry, feel empowered to treat others with contempt. These behaviors are not \’of Christ\’, as you know.
Please don\’t go in the direction of extremist-fundamentalism which is so very destructive, C.B.
I am concerned for you and will pray for you in the Name of Our Lord, in the way of my faith, that you are not overcome by that darkness. If you feel the darkness approaching, pray the ancient prayer of Christians: \’Saint Michael, the Arch-angel, defend us in battle.\’ This prayer will give you the protection of God\’s angels against the dark one.
By the way, C.B., my dear father, of blessed memory, was the finest man I ever knew. Your remark about my father is more than sad. I will pray for you in the vigil hour before sunrise, that you will find peace in Christ the Lord. You never \’gave up\’ on me, and now I will help you by calling on Our Lord to protect you from all harm. Love, L\’s
CB: First of all you don’t know nearly what you think you know about the Klouda situation or many other situations you pontificate about. Leave L’s alone. I think it’s clear that her father is not the devil. And get your Bible out, show me passage and verse where your behavior or words are acceptable. I don’t seem to find it anywhere.
David: We have a lot to apologize for. The poem could have done without the F bombs, but I concur with this young man’s thoughts. And the fact that many here don’t see it has me mighty concerned. Mighty concerned.
L’s you keep commenting, you make more Biblical sense than many here who use the gospel as a way to get people to shut up. Some won’t shut up, thankfully. Something Christ would condemn and not condone. Keep it up L’s. I like what you have to say.
L’s,
Drama just simply will not work.
I have in no way threatened you or any other woman on American soil. I have not disrespected you in any way either. That is a silly and false charge. I have simply told you the truth for almost two years. I have actually been a far better friend to you than Debbie, Paul or Wade and a host of others for all they did was empower you in your lostness, knowing full well you are not a true believer.
L’s I have in no way disrespected your earthly father. That is just absurd and you know it. You are just being dramatic again.
And if I am a fundamentalist for telling you that you are “of your father the Devil” in your lostness and rebellion to the biblical gospel; Then I am in good company.
John 8:44 “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
Jesus said that to some folks long ago who had consistently refused to repent and believe the biblical gospel just as you are doing now. So L’s, maybe you need to take your charge up with the Lord. I am just a messenger boy.
Well Hello Debbie,
And how much did you do to help Sheri Klouda in her time of need? You have used that poor woman to make miles for your own advantage. And Debbie, you really don’t want to challenge me about what I know. Remember you tried that before. You called a friend of mine not once but twice and found that I had, in fact, told the truth. But don’t worry. I don’t publish emails and it has been a long time since I recorded a phone conversation.
And you have definitely used L’s as a comrade knowing she is lost. You have empowered this poor woman’s lostness. And you are accountable.
Hi C.B.
You are ‘a messenger’? I have known about St. John’s Gospel for many years. I read it myself during Lenten vigil each morning, along with the Lenten Psalms.
Actually, my Church reads St. John’s Gospel during the Lenten Season EVERY YEAR, out loud in the first part of our ‘Service of the Word’ (followed by the Eucharistic ‘Thanksgiving’)
And, as a qualified teacher of religion in Catholic Schools, I knew that our catechism speaks to this portion of St. John’s Gospel, also.
“392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter’s words to our first parents: “You will be like God.”270 The devil “has sinned from the beginning”; he is “a liar and the father of lies”.271
393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. “There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death.”272
394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls “a murderer from the beginning”, who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 “The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.”274
My Church is immersed in Holy Scripture and immersed in Christ. Your treatment of Debbie is not an example of the ‘fruit’ of the Spirit in your life. I will pray for you to receive the blessings of the Spirit.
I am thinking that you consign me to hell because I do not believe in the ‘Gospel of C.B.’ I know that you need prayer. And that, I can do for you, with great love, because I know that you have suffered in this life, and that this suffering has left its scars on you, and you need the healing embrace of Our Lord.
God be with you and protect you and lead to that high rock where He shelters us from all harm. He will help you. I am sure of it. L’s
L’s,
I have not consigned you to hell.
I just simply told you you were going there if you do not repent and believe the biblical gospel. And you evidence the fact that you have not with every comment you make.
And it is not my gospel L’s. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ. But I do know it. And you can know it also if you will repent and believe it alone for your salvation.
Dear C.B.
I am glad that you know the Gospel of the Lord.
Now you can communicate with Debbie in accordance with the Laws of Lord Christ. In time, you will come to understand better, if you are prayed for and cared for, in the Holy Name of the Lord.
Raised up on the cross, He heals all wounds, C.B., if we turn our faces towards Him.
Love, L’s
Ryan and Debbie,
Maybe you can exlain to me why he apologized on behalf of Christians for men beating their wives? What? What did Christians do to cause men to beat their wives?
Maybe you can explain to me why he apologized on behalf of Christians for the homeless being homeless? Again, what? What did Christians ever do to cause people to be homeless? In fact, most of the soup kitchens and shelters were started by Christians.
Maybe yall can help me to know what Indian tribes were wiped out by Christians? lol. What Church got their guns and raided an Indian tribe and wiped them out?
Also, maybe yall can explain the plague statement? I mean, Christians caused the plague? Really?
And, also, the whole attitude of this young man and his poem was so negative, and such an attack; that it came off as condemning and judgmental and condescending. It would have been a lot better if he’d got up there and confessed his sins; if he would’ve confessed all the ways that he had failed. I mean, he did a great job of confessing all the things that the Catholic Church did,and what some other people who claimed to be Christians did, and what true Christians did, or failed to do, and he even threw in a lot of things that leave you scratching your head wondering what in the world is he talking about; but…but…but why didnt he focus on his ownself. It’s really easy to throw rocks at every one else…especially those people from history.
Well, I guess it’s easier to condemn others, rather than to take a long, hard look at yourself.
David
LENTEN THOUGHTS
And should we all say:
“Oh Lord, I thank Thee that I do not use the ‘F’ word like that sinner.”
or
do we realize that the poem is in the form of a confession:
very rough and raw. and filled with pain (as most confessions are),
and done in accordance with the Book of James 5:16 ?
\\\\\\\”Therefore, confess your sins one to another;
and pray for one another, SO THAT YOU MAY BE HEALED.\\\\\\\”
Perhaps the poet is seeking healing, through this ‘confession’,
filled with pain, (as most confessions are).
And if this poet has touched a nerve
and ‘upset’ us from our comfort zone,
may we have the courage to ask of God \\\’Why?\\\’
\\\”WHY?\\\”
Could it be that the ‘F’ word is the least our rage.
and
if God gives to us the blessing of an answer to our ‘Why?’,
then His answer may also be painful for us to know,
(as often His Answers are painful to know)
And if, in accordance with the Book of James 5:16,
His Answer comes: ‘SO THAT YOU MAY BE HEALED.
In pain, we answer Him, ‘May it be so.’
CB: I am not the one using anyone. And maybe being out in the world as much as I am , among people of other beliefs and personalities has opened me up to not being so dismissive. I know I don’t shove the gospel down their throats in order to dismiss them. In my opinion that is what you are doing. Has it occurred to you that I may know just a little more about Sheri Klouda than you know. How I have helped her I will keep to myself, but I will remind you that our church had set up a fund to financially help her. It was quite successful.
David: You wrote a post disagreeing with a poem. Obviously taking offense, while creating a argument that the poem isn’t addressing. Then you tell me that it’s easier to judge others than take a look at myself. I find that deeply ironic.
As for apologizing, I think we Baptists may have some apologizing to do. Again. http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/4970/53/
I forgot to note in any of my comments, that the poem would have been fine without the F bombs. I hate cursing. It proves nothing but that one can curse.
CB: As for any phone calls I have no idea what you are talking about. No idea whatsoever. I know you have been less than honest on your knowledge of a few subjects on this blog today. That I do know. Otherwise I am lost as to where you are going.
Why CB because she is Roman Catholic? If I were to check the fruit of the Spirit as scripture teaches it in Galatians would it fit you now or L’s. My conscience is quite clear before God. But thank you for your concern. :) Yeah, concern.
No Debbie,
It is not because she is Roman Catholic. It is because there is only one gospel and L’s does not embrace that one gospel.
But one thing is true here in what you say Debbie. You are “out there.” You really are. You are way, way out there.
The question is, will you ever get back from out there?
Debbie,
I just read the link you put up in comment #39. In reading the comment you made relating to the link; “As for apologizing, I think we Baptists may have some apologizing to do. Again.” it seems that you believe “all” Baptists are accountable for the actions of this one Baptist.
Debbie, that is absurd. Yet, it is a prime example of the twisted logic you constantly articulate in posts and comments.
It is true that that particular Baptist “may” (he is not yet convicted) have things needing repentance on his part and he may need to be severely punished by the state of Arkansas for the rest of his natural life.
It is also true that some other Baptist folk may need to repent and apologize and be held legally accountable if they hired this guy with knowledge that he did such things. Or if they did not perform a proper background check and give due diligence during the interview process as to the guy’s fitness to serve in a ministry to children and youth.
But for you to say, “As for apologizing, I think we Baptists may have some apologizing to do. Again.” is absurd and totally without merit on your part.
That statement also gives credible evidence “again” that you constantly make statements without forethought or biblical and theological understanding relating to social matters.
“We Baptists” have nothing to apologize for in that story of one man’s sick sin, if he is guilty. But maybe “some” Baptists do.
Matt2239, I was pretty surprised by your hateful response to what was otherwise a very respectful exchange regarding a culturally relevant topic. You seem to think my question about the F word typifies the depth to which the American Church has fallen. It seems to me that the angry chaos these forums so often degenerate into among God’s people says much more about the current state of said church than my question does. Interesting set of priorities you have there. Forgive me for bogging you down with more thoughtless pablum but I wanted to point out that you misquoted me. I didn’t say that words don’t have inherent meanings; I said they don’t have inherent moral value. A word is what culture makes of it. If the sound that comes from what we know as the F word is made in the Chinese language, it is not immoral because it does not have the same meaning in that language that it has in modern English. That’s what I meant. It’s also interesting that you seem to have such a violent disdain for the F word, yet you used the word “fool” to describe me, a word that Scripture does in fact address explicitly (Matthew 5:22), with very unpleasant implications.
You charge me with missing what Scripture is plainly saying, and yet you’ve apparently gotten wrong such clear passages as Matthew 22:39, which is the nickname you gave yourself to comment on this article. Interesting that you would choose a nickname based on a verse about loving your neighbor as yourself. I supposed you’ll say you’ve spoken the truth to me in love, but no one in their right mind would find love in your message. Other clear passages you’ve apparently misread are Matthew 7:3, Matthew 23:23, 2 Timothy 2:24-26, and 1 John 4:20. You complain about my question regarding the F word, but then you go and spew all sorts of hateful language at me. Again, interesting set of priorities you have. You’re trying to instruct me in holiness by coming at me with an unholy attitude.
Finally, please don’t trouble yourself too much with feeling sorry for me. I’ve got a great life and a Savior who loved me enough to bleed for me. Thanks be to God.
Nick
I just wanted to let you hear something really, really good. My Mom called this morning and said that they had 16 people make professions of faith last night at their revival meeting. That’s right; an old fashioned revival meeting that went from Sunday morning thru Wed. night with an Evangelist preaching. One person that got saved was a lady that they had been reaching out to for a while with no response nor interest. But, she got saved last night. Praise the Lord! Also, a fella, who used to be a shy drunk, but he got saved a while back, attended the revival meetings. He was praising the Lord thru out the service. He is now a bold witness for the Lord. He belongs to another Church, but he is now singing special music and serving God. God is still doing great things. God still saves people.
I don’t understand why people can’t discuss anything without getting offended and defensive. Too much carnality. Speak the truth in love, whatever the truth is.
As to the topic, if we would be honest with our Christian principles, we are to abstain from every appearance of evil, and to not let corrupt communication proceed out of our mouths. Given that people of the world frown on the use of such language, why would a Christian condone it? Everyone knows it is a “bad” word. Why is it not permitted on the public airwaves, but yet be condoned by a Christian? These things should not be the case.
Secondly, we owe no one an apology for the actions of anyone else. Many people view the actions of a few to hold hostage those who have done nothing similar. This is not biblical. Jesus welcomed those of the Jews (and Gentiles) who had faith in God. The sins of their fathers were not brought up.
Yet for those who continued to practice the sins of their fathers, then they were called “relatives”. In Acts 7, Stephen chided the Jews – not because of the sins of their fathers – but because they were acting the same way.
“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.”
Yet the Jews were also children of Abraham, a man of faith. But when they didn’t practice that same spirit of faith, they weren’t his descendants, but rather, they were children of the devil (According to John 8.)
That being said, Godly people shouldn’t be blamed for the sins of those gone before, and unrighteous people shouldn’t feel comfortable just because they go to church or claim to be saved.
As Ezekiel 18:20 says,
“The person who sins will die The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”
As I listened again to the \’poem\’, an old song began to form in my memory. The song contains this message:
\’And the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls,
tenement halls,
and echo in the Sounds of Silence . . \’ (Simon and Garfunkel, of course)
Sometimes we need to see and to hear the outpouring of the pain of others, if we are to turn again toward the Lord. In the Body of Christ, are we called by God to know that when one among us suffers, we all suffer? And, as members of His Body made one, are we called by God to know that we are parts of one another, inter-connected in Him and with Him ?
Should we always stay safely \’near the shore\’ in familiar waters, and cast our nets? Or does Christ send us into deeper waters sometimes, and we obey in faith, and when we cast our nets in the places He sends us, then we begin to understand. Comfort zones are not for Christians in \’this world\’. We are sent out onto the deep where it is said that \’only drowning men can see Him\’, and there we serve.
So if we read the writings on the \’subway walls\’ and on the \’tenement halls\’, and if we hear a poet spill forth his pain in words that offend us, we know that we have entered out into the deep waters.
And there, in the light of Christ, we don\’t see \’what offends us\’ so much anymore because He has sent us to understand the pain behind the words, and to reach drowning men and bring them safely into the boat where Our Lord will heal their pain. Comfort zones close to shore?
Or the deep waters, with Our Lord in the boat to calm the storms? How strong is our faith? If \’shock and repulsion\’ is our reaction to the expression of pain in others, how strong is our faith?
May we enter out into the \’deep\’ without fear; Christ is in the boat with us. And may we cast our nets there among the drowning, with great love, at His Command.
I just wanted to say another thing about this poem. If I was a lost man listening to all of this negative rant, I would probably be agreeing with him to the Nth degree. And, I would go away thinking, “Yea, he’s right. All of those Christians are hypocrites and fakes. Christianity aint real. That’s the reason I never go to Church.” That’s the kind of feeling this kind of “poem” generates.
I can just see lost people hearing that, and it make them more against the Gospel. I really dont see this “poem” being something that would cause a lost man to think about his soul and want to be saved. I mean, who would want anything to do with a bunch of people like that guy just talked about? Who would want to surrender their heart and mind to something like that? Who would want to go to Church and hear the Bible, if that’s what it’s all about?
David
L’s, said:
“May we enter out into the ’deep’ without fear; Christ is in the boat with us.”
I did. I did because Christ saved me from death, hell and the grave of which I so truly deserve.
Then L’s said:
“And may we cast our nets there among the drowning, with great love, at His Command.”
I did that also. I did it because you are drowning L’s. I did it because your lostness is a burden on my soul. And I trust by faith that it is by His command.
Everyone,
Let’s try to stay on topic, please. And, Robert, I deleted your comment. Let’s not turn this into a name calling, Jerry Springer show thing. Okay?
David
Hi C.B.
We have different beliefs about many things.
But we both understand trying to help someone that we think is in need of Christ’s healing.
Think about that for a while, and then you CAN be at peace.
Christ brings forth much good in us when we respond to His loving-kindness and care about one another;
because His loving-kindness creates a place in our hearts where He may enter in and find a home within us.
He blesses the person who cares AND the one that is cared for.
But the work of Salvation is His alone, as the healing of our hearts is the work of His Spirit, so you may be at peace and find rest, once you have pointed someone you are worried about towards Him.
Love you dearly, L’s
Now. Go and make peace with Debbie. She is a model for me of Christ’s love and compassion at work in this world. :)
Everyone, let’s try to stay on topic, please.
The question is, will you ever get back from out there?
I certainly hope not.
Sorry, David, I didn’t see your first request. I will respect your wishes and refocus to stay on topic.
Sorry David. CB started his bullying and graceless posts and I responded in kind. Funny how his demeaning, accusatory, uneducated drivel never gets removed.
Thank you again L’s for showing a true Christian heart.
Robert,
Are you familiar with the biblical gospel? Can you articulate it?
In what way did I not tell L’s the truth?
Robert,
What is graceless about the gospel?
CB,
There is nothing graceless about the gospel. You have not once articulated word for word what it means to be a Christian. You have browbeat people, called them children of the devil, liars, idiots, destined for hell. I can not tell you what L believes is necesary for salvation. She has not posted that here today. And for the record, neither have you.
Robert,
When you posted various things on Vol’s former blog it is a fact that you did tell things that were not true. You now come here for no more than payback for me calling your hand back then.
For the greater part of two years L’s has shared her views of that which she embraces as making her a child of God. What she has articulated in the past and the present is not the biblical gospel.
Again here, you speak as you did in the past. I have not once refered to anyone on this thread as an idiot or a liar. Now, in the past I have refered to you as a liar. And Robert, it still astounds me that you say you have a degree from SWBTS.
You come here playing your silly games to try and salvage your hurt ego from the past without taking the time to read what L’s has said. I say you have not done that because anyone with any theological and biblical understanding would see from her comments she has no inderstanding of the biblical gospel.
On second thought Robert, maybe you did read her comments. For you have never displayed any understanding of Scriptural truth or theology in the first place.
CB,
So your posts are based on a history you have with that person. Fine- I can not comment on something that I have not seen. Other than that I believe you have me mistaken for someone else. In my first post (that was deleted) I mentioned that I was responding for the first time and made some comments about how I believed you to be rather crass. That comment comes from the experience of reading your posts here for a while, and until now choosing not to post. If this other Robert that you speak of has problems with the way you deal with and speak with others, I doubt it has anything to do with where he went to school.
You did not use some of the words I attributed to you. For that I apologize. I should have clarified that it was my opinion that you treated these people as if you belived them to be idiots and liars. I know the gospel, the same gospel that you speak of I imagine. I am not ashamed of it and will speak it with conviction. I will do whatever it takes to share the gospel with those that need to hear.
That being said, I will NOT behave like the south side of a north facing donkey.
Robert,
I have never deleted any of CB’s comments because I like him.
David :)
Ann, Christiane, and others,
Salvation is by the grace of God, not by works. Getting baptised will not save anyone. Being a nice person will not save anyone. Giving food to the hungry will not save anyone. Joining a Church will not save anyone. Saying 1,000 Hail Mary’s will not save anyone. Saying prayers will not save anyone. Being a great neighbor will not save anyone. Taking the Lord’s Supper will not save anyone.
Listen, you can do as many good deeds as Mother Theresa, and still go to Hell. You can be as religious as the Pope, and still go to Hell. You can as good a neighbor as the best Mormon on Earth, and still spend eternity in Hell. Salvation is not by works, nor by the will of man, but by God’s grace. And, no person will get to Heaven based on their good works…no one. Only by the grace of God.
Salvation is by the grace of God thru faith. Ephesians 2:8-10; Acts 20:20-21
David
David,
Sounds fair. I guess I will have to work on getting on your good side. I’ll start with a hearty AMEN!! to your post. Well said. And Thank God for Grace.
CB,
See how easy it is to relay the gospel unashamedly without being a jerk. Maybe David could give you some pointers.
Now David, look up the word grace as used in scripture and also see how we are to use it. And you don’t think we need to apologize for anything. Oh but I disagree.
I should have clarified that it was my opinion that you treated these people as if you belived them to be idiots and liars
Robert, I read that you were a first time poster, but obviously CB in his all knowing over the top state didn’t know. It appears he didn’t read it or anything else you said for that matter.
CB: As I said, you don’t know near as much as you think you do. Robert is not even the Robert you thought you were addressing. I rest my case.
David: The fact that you let CB come here and beat on L’s, dismiss Ann and a host of other things that you have said here, your presentation of the Gospel, like CB’s leaves a lot to be desired. The Gospel was never intended to be used as a weapon or a shield to ward off evil Spirits that are not Southern Baptists as you both have used it. But thank you both for demonstrating in full my point. I rest my case.
Debbie,
What? Could you please repeat what you wrote in a more clear way?
David
Robert,
I did not say you had commented here before. I said you had commented on Vol’s former blog before. Are you the same Robert? If so my comments about you stand for they are true. If not I apologize for confusing you with another Robert. Although, you certainly would remind me of him in your comments.
You say you cannot comment about something you have not “seen.” You obviously already have. As for me being crass; that may well be true as to what that word actually means. But if me being truthful with L’s about her lostness is crass to you then you are wrong. Of course, I knew there would be critics and that is the risk one takes when being brazenly truthful on an open blog where various concepts of soteriology abound.
The problems the “other” Robert had with me had to do with me calling his hand for being a liar and a theological dwarf. As far as the comment about him going to SWBTS is concerned; He said he had a degree from there. My response to him was that due to his lack of biblical and theological comprehension I found that hard to believe and he must have slept through most of his theology classes, if not all of his classes.
I have not treated L’s as if she is an idiot for she is not one. She is rather intelligent and is well informed on the “left” side of many political, theological and social issues. At some point she has been involved with people from other countries, especially South America. L’s is no idiot. L’s is lost. There is a difference.
Now, as to your acquaintance with the biblical gospel, I have no reason to doubt you. But I do think that if you had read L’s comments with much discernment you would easily see she does not articulate a true personal knowledge of the gospel if, as you say, you do know the gospel, you are not ashamed of it, you speak it with conviction and you do what it takes to share it with other people.
As to you or me acting like a donkey from any side of the beast; Well I guess that is in the eyes of the beholder.
Lastly, your comment about me being uneducated means you know nothing of me. Of course, I must admit one’s concept of another’s education is also relative to the same as the side of the donkey you mentioned. In other words, that too is often in the “eyes of the beholder.”
Debbie,
Also, I do believe that I should apologize for what I do; not what you did, not what Robert did, not what CB did, and certainly not for what Tim Rogers has done! I should apologize for what I do.
Christians did not cause the plague. Christians did not wipe out Indian tribes. Christians did not cause men to beat their wives. Christians did not cause people to be homeless. And, Debbie, there was nothing that Christians could have done to stop the plague from happening; from stopping white settlers moving into Indian territory; to stop men from beating their wives. Mercy me, men will beat their wife no matter what we do. C’mon. Let’s use our heads a little bit, here.
David
Debbie,
The meds will kick in if you take them as scheduled. :-)
I have a relatively new Christian and new to the SBC.
I have been reading these exchangs where people damn others to hell (unless of course they spout the exact words the accuser demands they spew), call each other liars and suggest that someone who disagrees with them take meds.
Please explain to me why I should strive to learn anything from any of you and how your words and actions glorify Christ. I am not being sarcastic. I just truly have no idea how all of this can help me grow in my faith.
Fully expecting to be told “good riddance,”
Ann S
Ann,
First let me ask you a question. Did I make a disparaging comment to you as Debbie accused me? I don’t think I did. Debbie just sometimes shoot with a shotgun and I don’t think she sees too well. She probably should not be allowed to own firearms. :-)
Now, You say you are a new believer? That is good. That is very good. May I ask you a question or two?
Ann,
I’m very glad that you’re a new Believer. Praise the Lord! Ann, these blogs are not for the faint of heart. You have all kinds of people commenting….some are lost….some are liberals…some are heretics…some are Believers…some are immature Believers…Some are mature Believers. All kinds. Thus, you have to be ready to make comments to all kinds.
The Lord Jesus spoke kind and compassionately to the people who were truly seeking. He sometimes spoke kindly to the disciples, and at other times He had to rebuke them, which could sound harsh to someone that hasnt been saved very long. Jesus spoke harshly to the lost Pharisees and Sadducees, because they werent seeking. They were leading people astray, and into error, and even into Hell. Thus, Jesus spoke very sternly and very harshly to them. In fact, He called them white washed tombs, a pit of snakes, liars, and a host of other things. The Apostle Paul, Peter, Jude, and others had some harsh words for the apostates that were out there trying to lead people down the wrong path.
Ann, sometimes, the most compassionate thing someone can do is to look an apostate, or a heretic, straight in the face and expose them for what they are. In order to save others from their heresy and errors, the most loving thing we can do sometimes is to call something what it is…for the good of everyone else.
Now, should Christians learn to speak with more grace and love? Yes. Should Christians learn to speak more wisely? Yes. But, also, we should speak out plain and clear against errors that could lead others down a destructive path.
David
No CB. You may not. I asked you a question and I need to hear your answer before I can go further. I don’t mean to sound terse – I just am not very trusting at the moment.
And please leave Debbie out of the conversation.
Brother Robert,
You say; “That comment comes from the experience of reading your posts here for a while, and until now choosing not to post. If this other Robert that you speak of has problems with the way you deal with and speak with others, I doubt it has anything to do with where he went to school.”
Uh, I have checked your ISP. According to our records, your comments on this post are the first since last year when we ran a post entitled; “What is Baptist Identity”. You said in one of your comments to Brother CB; “CB- Rex’s statement is probably the single most provable statement ever spoken by the opposition. Just visit a church or two or interview a few hundred pastors. The truth hurts.” I can also find comments you made back in 2008. So you have not really been, as we say in NC, above board with your statement to Brother CB. It does seem that Brother CB has not confused you with someone else. I believe he has clearly called your number and you seem to be squeling too loudly that Brother CB has you mixed up with another Robert. According to your ISB and your email that you signed in with you are the same one that debated him last year on another post.
Blessings,
Tim
Ann,
I’ll be right back. :-)
And I am always glad to leave Debbie out of things. if you will go back through the comment thread, you will find she drew first blood.:-)
See Robert,
Tim went to school with me for a while. He knows that back in the days of the CR I could remember everything I read. A habit that just drove the liberals nuts when I would quote them. :-)
Now it is true that I am now old as dirt and my memory ain’t what it used to be by a long shot. So I am wrong far more often than I would like to be.
But in this case, with Tim’s new found evidence, let me quote another NC boy from up Mayberry way, Gomer Pyle.
Robert, CITIZEN’S ARREST, CITIZEN’S ARREST. :-)
Dear Ann,
Just FYI: the fellows who largely contribute and comment on this blog are. . . how shall I put it? Outspoken and blount? They have their opinion of theological issues and of how they should interact with others, what is called for, when it is called for, and how truth should be presented and pursued. They have passion. Most of them would argue with a stump (as C.B. probably knows, that is not so much an insult as a southernism for one who enjoys argument/debate). Occasionally–not often in my experience, but occasionally–one of them will concede that someone they are arguing with has made a good point (C.B. comes to mind, although the others may). In fact, although they sometimes (read: frequently) get me all riled up, I do, for the most part respect them.
Two things though: dealing with “them” is not for the faint of heart. We can say with Isaiah about Jesus, “a bruised reed shall he not break,” but their personality is rather different, more confrontational, less circumspect. Who among us is Jesus, and has His judgment and timing? Certainly not me, and not C.B. or David Worley either. And there is a time and a place for their way, but they (seem at least) to use that exclusively. Second, I really would like to have understood their personalities “BC,” that is before their conversion. Of course, that is idle curiosity, but I do sometimes wonder if they had the same bull-dog tenacity toward other matters before their conversion, or if something in or related to their conversion experience convinced them that “d— the torpedos, full speed ahead” was the best way to go for Jesus. I think once you comprehend that, you can interact more readily with them. And if not, most of the fellows over at baptistlife.com tend to be a bit more gentle, as well as tolerant of diverse opinions. I hang out there a lot myself.
John
Ann,
First, I did not condemn L’s or anyone else to hell. Hell is a terrible place according to the Scripture. It is for that reason I do not want L’s to go there. That is why I have dialogued about it with her for close to two years now.
Secondly, I did not call anyone a liar. I was accused of that, but did not do it. I did suggest that Robert was a fellow I had called a liar in the past. Now you know the rest of that story so we will leave that alone.
Thirdly, I don’t know if you can learn anything from me. That depends on what you want to learn. But I usually try to answer any question asked of me in an honest manner. And that often gets me in trouble with folks. You see Ann, when it comes to the truth there is:
What people want to hear
What people believe
Then there is everything else.
And then there is the truth.
And people often dread or deny the truth.
But it is our responsibility to tell the truth anyway.
Fourthly, I am glad you want to know things, because that is the only way you will learn anything, having a desire to know.
Lastly Ann, You said you are new here, I think? If so, please remember you do not know all the players in Blogtown yet. Some of us have been living here since ’06 or 05 even. There is a lot of history between many of us. We are sometimes maybe too at ease with one another (I know I often am) for new folks to understand. But once you begin to recognize the neighborhood, you might think a little different of some of us. Of course, you might not.
So hang around. Ask questions. But remember; Watch out for bad outlaws. ‘Cause the woods ’round here are full of ‘em. :-)
John,
You are still a cop at heart and I am still a pirate. :-) Next time you get down this way, call me. I’ll buy your lunch.
David: I think if you read my comment again and again, it will become clear to you with no further explanation, except that I did not put Robert’s quotes in italics.
And yes Ann, watch out for robbers the woods are full of them. They will attempt to steal your trust, your strength, your joy, your very walk with Christ. They are called Grace Killers, and they are the ones that shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun or use the Bible as a gun. But don’t you let them. For a new Christian you have a lot of insight that many who are mature do not. As I told L’s hang in there, I like what you have to say. :)
And yeah, most of us have been on here since the beginning of the frucas, it has made some more cantankerous and Baptist Identity than others.
To all,
I do not pretend to know much about computers, but I assure you that I have NEVER posted on this site before. I have no knowledge of a blog by anyone named Vol. And as Ann has stated, it seems difficult to trust anyone in here including Tim who has come up with this false information about me. If the purpose of this blog is to attack others for their beliefs and opinions then it will probably be a while before I post again. I know this will sound condescending but I honestly and sincerely mean it. I will pray for you CB, and for Tim that this need to demean others will disappear from your personality and that God will bless you with the ability to dialogue in a way that glorigies Him.
Dear ANN,
When I read that you were ‘relatively new’ to the Christian faith, I thought, ‘Welcome Home’. :)
What I perceive you saying is familiarty breeds contempt. Sad.
I think I will watch from the sidelines if at all. I find it all very very discouraging.
Dear ANN,
Don’t be discouraged.
Some in the Body of Christ are not very strong. If they show contempt for others, we all suffer. But we musn’t reject them. In the Body of Christ, they too are needed. They are kept at the heart of the Body of Christ and prayed for by those who love them, so that they may be healed.
On another blog, I read that a Baptist minister’s wife, Rachelle Burleson told her husband Wade, that ‘people who are hurting are the ones that hurt other people’.
In Christianity, there is room for those who are hurting, to be taken in, and given over to the love of Christ. Soon, comes ‘Good Friday’ where we ‘make present again’ in our memories the ‘Son of Man lifted up’ on the Cross.
Ann, it is said that all who look upon Him will be healed.
So, don’t be discouraged. If you see someone who is in need of healing and who lashes out with contempt at others, help them to turn their faces towards the Lord. In His Mercy, He will do the rest.
OK.
Vol is asleep.
Tim is downloading a Rick Warren sermon for Sunday.
John is at Baptistlife.com.
Debbie is….well, who ever knows where Debbie is, but she is “out there” somewhere.
Robert is trying to find out how computers work.
Ann is off being being discouraged and maybe just a little Pharisaical and condescending.
Well L’s, that just leaves you and me. So what do you want to talk about tonight? :-)
Brother Robert,
Good try but no cigar. By turning off your router and rebooting it you will be assigned a new ISP. However, you have the same email assigned to comment #83 that you used to comment on 2/24/2009. Of course if you believe I am wrong or just merely trying to present false information you may view it for yourself. Just go here.
Now, you need to back up and stop charging me with being dishonest and demeaning to others. It appears you also need to apologize to Brother CB for being wrong in speaking to you before. This comment thread is not the first time you have commented on SBC Today. I can follow your ISP all the way back to 7/16/2008 where you commented at 9:23 am and your ISP and email are the same then as it was in comment #66. The only difference in your 7/16/2008 comment and the comments in this comment stream is you were going by RC then. I have you at the same ISP and email in 2008 as I do here.
Blessings,
Tim
Hi CB,
Thanks.
I’m afraid I have wandered from David’s topic.
I’m sure you watched the film of the ‘poet’. Everyone seemed so ‘shocked’ by him, which surprised me because somewhere in that ‘poem’ I think we all saw something of the truth about ourselves. Ouch!
I actually was quite comfortable with the message, because I thought the ‘poet’ was calling Christians to ‘repent’ which means to ‘re-think’ how we have been conducting ourselves in front of non-believers.
I don’t think Baptists are seriously into ‘repentance’, and I got that idea from Emily Hunter-McGowin’s latest blog post on the subject of repentance and confession.
So. I would like to know your reaction to Emily’s post. Is there something of meaning for you in her writing on this topic?
Love, L’s
L’s,
I have not read Emily’s post. I will say that I have read some of her posts with much reflection . Also, I know she has Boxer dogs as do I and that proves she has good taste in my book. :-)
As far as “repentance” goes, I can only speak for myself and what I think. I do not think that all Baptists are as serious as they should be about repentance. I know some are and probably more than “you” think. Frankly, I don’ think all Catholics are either. I know some are and probably more than “I” think. But I know this. I have to be serious about repentance personally. L’s, I am a new creature in Christ, but I am still chief of sinners nonetheless. I continually find myself in need of repentance.
As far as the poem is concerned, I think it was the critique of an immature young man who has yet to see the reality of life.
I can assure you of this. I am not sorry to be Christian. In no way do I apologize for my faith in the atoning work of Christ in my life. For without Christ in my life I would be of all men most miserable and damned for a Devil’s hell.
In God’s providence, He spared me of a harsh and hard death many times before I was saved. Why He allowed me to live and so many others to die, I will never know and the memories of His sparing me so many times crushes me on many occasions when I reflect upon them.
So L’s, no I am not sorry I am a Christian. I am sorry and repentant that I am not a much better Christian than I am, but I am not the least bit sorry that I am one. For the alternative to being a Christian is pure hell.
C.B.
Here is Emily’s site:
http://thinklaughweepworship.blogspot.com/
Let me know what you think. It’s a short read, but there is much in it that is reflective. That prayer on it is Anglican. In my Church, we have the ‘original’ prayer :)
BTW there is a more ancient Christian prayer said by the Orthodox called the ‘Jesus Prayer’. It is said like this:
‘Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior,
have mercy on me, a sinner.’
You may know the shorter version which has an acronym that forms the letter ‘fish’ in Greek. The ancient Christians used that symbol to stand for Our Lord. We still use the ‘fish’ symbol today.
If you read the prayer on Emily’s site, you will see how it connects up with David’s post. If you want to, let me know what you think about it.
Love, L’s
John,
YOu have an interesting synopsis on CB and Tim and me. I know that I’m a little rough around the edges. I’m not very sophisticated. I’m an old, wild hog that God saved and called to preach and teach His Word. I know that. I’m fine with it. That’s just who I am.
As the old song goes, “He’s still working on me, to make me what I ought to be…”
But, to go along with your evaluation, what would you say about Jesus calling the Pharisees a bunch of snakes? Or, how about the time Jesus told Peter to get behind Me, Satan? Or, how about the time the Lord Jesus called the Pharisees “white washed tombs” that had a stinking body inside?
Also, what about the Apostle Paul and Peter and Jude calling people, who claimed to be Christians, but were preaching a false Gospel, apostates, or heretics, or false teachers? And, I believe if you’ll search your NT, there are many other places where the Apostles used some pretty strong language about people, who were lying to the Holy Spirit; opposing the Gospel; preaching a false Gospel; teaching errors; etc.
I guess CB and Tim and me might not fit those professional Pastors, who always speak in funeral home voices, and who act like people’s kind, old grandaddy. But, we are God’s men, who have been saved by the grace of God. And, I can speak for myself and say that I’m honestly trying to become all that God wants me to be. CB and Tim will have to speak for themselves, but I see 2 men, who are trying to serve the Lord and be the men that God wants them to be.
So, when I repent, L’s and Debbie and Chris Tse, I repent for MY sins. I confess what I’ve done to disappoint the Lord. I confess and repent of MY failures to be all that God wants me to be and do. But, I’ll be hanged if I’m gonna repent for causing the plague, or for men beating their wives, or for whatever other ills are in our society. I’m not apologizing for what the Catholic Church did hundreds and hundreds of years ago when they sent knights to take back the Holy Land from the Muslims. I’m not apologizing for what some Youth Pastor did in Arkansas 15 years ago. Now, if I did something, or my family did something, or my Church did something, or if the SBC did something wrong and harmed someone…then, I’ll apologize to the one’s that were harmed, and I’ll ask God to forgive us. I’ve even prayed that God would forgive our nation and be patient with us for all the abortions and the sin that goes on in our country. Because, I’m a citizen of this country. But, again, I say, why in the world would I get up in front of a bunch of lost people, or even in front of a bunch of Christians, and put it on Youtube, and apologize for being a Christian…and apologize on behalf of all Christians for things that we Believers had absolutely no control over? I dont get it. It sounds condescending, negative, and judgmental. It plays right into the hands of the lost, rebellious crowd, who are looking for things to justify their lost, rebellious condition. That “poem” rant just gave them more ammo for their rebellious attitudes toward God and His Church. So, I really dont think it was the wisest thing, nor the best thing to do. It certainly was not something that I would encourage every one to go and listen to, because it’s just “so good and worth your time to listen to;” as if it will teach us a thing or two. I guess it taught me, as a Believer in Christ, to stop causing the plague. As a Christ Follower, I must stop causing men to beat their wives; and I’ve just got to quit wiping out Indian tribes. lol.
David
Vol, You said:
“But, again, I say, why in the world would I get up in front of a bunch of lost people, or even in front of a bunch of Christians, and put it on Youtube, and apologize for being a Christian…and apologize on behalf of all Christians for things that we Believers had absolutely no control over?”
That question seems to call for a theological answer, at least to some degree.
The only logical conclusion one can come to from a theological perspective would be that a person who is living according to a works based soteriology would think it necessary to apologize for being a Christian. People who understand that we are saved by grace alone know they should never apologize for being a Christian.
To apologize for being a Christian is to confess that God’s grace is not sufficient to cleanse one of sin and failure. To have the conviction that one must apologize for being a Christian constitutes the need of human activity to accompany God’s grace to reconcile one to both God and man.
Now, some might argue that Christians are mandated to repent. That is true. All Christians are to maintain a repentant heart toward God. But to be convicted and willing to repent of personal and corporate sin is not the same as to apologize for “being” a Christian.
To apologize for being a Christian is to apologize for one’s position in Christ. One’s position in Christ is totally dependent on the work of Christ and not on human merit. Therefore to be convicted that one should apologize for being a Christian is to declare the grace of God insufficient.
To do such is in diametric opposition to biblical theology. Christ declared to Paul as he (Paul) struggled with the thorn in the flesh that His “grace is sufficient.” To declare a need to apologize for being a Christian is positionally in opposition to the declaration of Christ relating to His atonement for sin when he said; “It is finished.”
The need to apologize for being a Christian is in essence the human declaration that there is a degree of sin beyond the grace of the cross. That is simply impossible. God’s grace wrought through the atonement of Christ is sufficient to cleanse us of all sin and grace makes us the children of God. How can a human be convicted to apologize for the work of God? That is impossible. It is impossible for no man is God. Only God could apologize for His work. And due to the fact that God is perfect in every way, He cannot apologize for any thing He has done and grace is totally the work of God. In other words, my being a Christian is the work of God. How could I ever apologize for what God alone has done?
Vol, I know L’s believes in a salvation dependent upon grace and works. I have no idea what this guy Chris Tse believes.
But I was under the impression that Debbie Kaufman believed we are saved by grace alone. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe she of a different persuasion. Maybe she is right when she says; “CB, you don’t know as much as you think you know.”
L’s,
I read Emily’s post. She is wrong. It seems evident from reading her post that she is beginning to embrace a soteriology based on a degree of human effort combined with the work of Christ. That is not a biblical position.
L’s, I am not saying Emily is not a Christian. I am saying she is wrong biblically and theologically in what she has posted.
David,
You seem to have overstated my comments. One, I said there was a time and place for your style; I did not say it was wrong, unBiblical, or anything remotely like that. Need I remind you of the wisdom of the Book of Ecclesiastes, “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.” Of course that cuts both ways: if there is a season, time, and place for being blunt and outspoken, there is also a season, time, and place for being gentle, kind, and diplomatic. Isn’t that a direct application of what the Bible says? Two, I neither said, suggested, nor implied that you had anything to repent of or be sorry about, in terms of this poem, or in regards to what other so-called Christians have done. Your rant addressed to me in this regard is in response to nothing that came from me. Disagree with me if you wish; I’m a big boy and I can take it as well as give it. But disagree with me on something I have actually addressed.
I think earlier I had made a comment about the root meaning of the phrase “f— you,” which explanation and comment, if anything, tends to support your position in disliking the poem. But I did not say anything about the part of the poem in regard to appologizing. Consequently, I see three posible explanations: (1) you were over hasty in reading my comments, and misread and/or misunderstood them, (2) since you and I are frequently on opposite sides of an issue, you merely assumed that my position here would be opposed to yours without bothering to ascertain the truth, or (3) despite your bluster, you are really somewhat unsure of yourself, and rather than reveal what you regard as a weakness, move to the opposite end of the spectrum and attack, attack, attack, whether valid or not. I have insufficient evidence to conclude which of the possibilities is true.
And C.B. is right: I do still think like a cop many times and in many ways. I had one of the highest confession rates of all the detectives on the Montgomery Police Dept., and later as a security consultant in Birmingham, and I did it without resorting to violence of any sort, including cussing, yelling, or screaming. I would examine all the evidence, logically construct all the possible scenarios, then confront the suspect with all that, and keep at it with tenacity, utilizing all possible approaches that were consistent with the law.
John
JOhn,
The part about the poem and repenting was directed more towards Debbie and Christiane L’s, and Chris Tse…not towards you.
Sorry for the confusion.
David
Tim,
I apologize about implying you were dishonest. But you are mistaken, whether it is malicious or not is not mine to determine. This topic and my posts to CB were the very first time I have ever posted here, period. Like I said I am not sure how stuff works so I am at a loss. I got this computer in Jan. of 2009. Don’t know if it was bought by some Robert that hated you all. As for the e-mail, I can not explain that. It’s not even one I use. Haven’t even logged on this year.
Back to the topic
I am pleased that the discusion, at least from CB, has become a little more civil. It’s funny, because I have agreed with most about the poem. It is impossible to know the young man’s heart as he recites, but it definitely seems to be anti-Christian. I concede it could be some form of shock method to begin a dialogue about Christianity. I really don’t have much use for those methods. For me, creating relationship with people is the best way to share your faith with the. They get to see it in action. I am only concerned with what I have done for Christ lately. Am I saddened by what has been done in Christ’s name over the years? Sure, but I have enough to deal with just being accountable for myself.
In closing, Tim, I will use my new e-mail from this point forward, since there seems to be evidence of my old e-mail’s corruption.
So, Robert, you’re not the guy that used to come into From the Hills and Hollers blog and “discuss” issues with Volfan007? You’re not that same Robert?
You sure do sound like him. Now, I’m not saying that you are. I’m just saying that all of us in here thought that you were, because you sound just like him. In fact, the comment from you that I deleted, or I guess that was you, I’m not sure now, where you blasted CB and called him every name in the book, sounded a lot like the old Robert that used to come to From the Hills and Hollers. But, I’m not a computer guy. So, I have to ask these things.
Anyway, I’m just curious.
David
Now Robert,
Before you answer you need to know we are presently watching you on video through your computer. Be careful. We don’t want to have to put you under CITIZEN’S ARREST again.
Now, C.B., I have a picture of you hollering ‘Citizen’s Arrest’ and looking like Jim Neighbors. :)
I loved the Andy Griffith Show. I still do.
L’s,
:-)
David,
I have never been to “From the Hills and Hollers”, and I am not sure what I posted to CB. I guess I was defending someone that by the looks of her writing didn’t really need defending. CB just comes off to me a little arrogant sometimes. I guess that my coming in here calling people names doesn’t make me look any better. I would like to get to know him better so I can avoid knee jerk reactions. CB- you seem like a very intelligent man, one that likes Gomer Pyle. I sincerely apologize.
To change the subject, I would just like to throw out a prayer request here. This coming Tuesday I have to preach a funeral for my nephew. My sister-in-law delivered at 20 weeks and he only survived an hour or so. I have done my share of funerals, just never family or this tough situation. I am also not a preaching pastor (Music Minister)so it’s already a little out of my comfort zone. So if you accept my apology please shoot one up to the throne for me.
Robert
Robert, what a sad occasion. I am so sorry for your loss and that of your family. I will be praying for you as you head into this time of deep mourning. Thanks for letting your Christian family bear this burden with you.
Grace,
Nick
Robert,
PLease know that our praying for you is not dependent upon any apology you might offer, but rather it is because you ask. I think I can speak for Vol and Tim in saying that.
These guys will pray for any one who asks them to do so and so will I.
Robert, I pray our Holy Father give you wisdom and grace abounding as you prepare to minister to your own family in this time. And may He use you to life the Name of Jesus up to a people in need letting them know that our Lord Jesus the Christ is sufficient in His love, grace and mercy for this hard time and forevermore. A-Men.
Thank You guys.
CB:
Actually I was off being with my best friend whose husband had a heart attack (he will be OK, Thank God), but thanks for thinking the best of me while I was gone. I am not sure how I am being a Pharisee or condescending, but I am sure you are willing to tell me.
I am discouraged because I thought reading some blogs would help me understand some things more, but I confess to being more confused than ever! I am told to hang around and ask questions, but then called names when I don’t ask or way the “right” thing, or apparently in a timely manner. and enc
Thank you to all those that expressed true kind sentiments and encouragement.
Ann S
Word Verification: KINDNESS. I like that.
Ann,
I dont remember anyone calling you a Pharisee. And, these blogs may not be the place for new Believers. There’s some deep, deep conversation taking place in some of these posts, and you have all types getting in on the conversation. You may not be ready to tackle some of the stuff that’s being talked about in blogs. But, if you’re willing to wade into the deeper waters, and you can keep your head afloat and not drown, then most certainly you can learn and grow from the things that are discussed in blogs.
But, Ann, you have to be very discerning when reading blogs and the comments. Anyway, I do pray that the Lord will bless you and help you to grow in knowledge and wisdom; but, most of all, that you’ll grow closer to Him.
Robert,
Our prayers are with you and your family. May God give yall extra grace during this time of grief.
David
Davod – Please see CB’s comment:
“Ann is off being being discouraged and maybe just a little Pharisaical and condescending.”
My skin is clearly not tough enough for this blog and many others, so I will leave the party.
Best of luck to all.
Ann,
You come here with a chip on your shoulder from the beginning. New Christian or no new Christian, you need to lighten up a little.
Go back up through your comments from the beginning. You were and still are condescending. And, frankly, I think you have been around these blogs and commented before. I could be wrong, but I think I ran into you over at Debbie’s fun house a time or two.
I made an effort to dialogue with you. You were….shall we say, somewhat snotty.
So, if you want to ask me a question, fine. If not, fine. But if you come to a Baptist blog site, you have to remember you “ain’t in Kansas no more, Toto.”
and my verification word is LOVE. Now ain’t that a lark! :-)
Hello Ann,
In my study of the blogs of different denominations, I have found that Southern Baptist blogs, as a rule, do NOT engage in heavy-duty disrespect of women. But unless the blog hosts are extremely vigilant, every blog will occasionally kick out the odd hysteric who may have difficulty controlling verbal expression of misogynistic attitudes directed as verbal attacks towards women commenters.
The range permitted of the misogynistic treatment of women is directly proportionate to how far into fundamentalism the blog has gone in its outlook on the ‘place’ of women. The pattern at its worst displays a form of verbal abuse, followed by a portrayal of the intended victim as ‘deserving it’.
Most Southern Baptist blogs which call themselves either ‘conservative’ or ‘moderate’ are in tune with biblical principles of respect for human beings as made in the image of God.
The ‘fundamentalists’ show a different level of tolerance (or intolerance) for the treatment of women, which is why you may feel more discomfort on a fundamentalist blog. if you have never seen some of these more negative behaviors presented before, on a Christian blog. My advice is to try a range of blogs and explore them with attention to your own comfort zone, as directed by the discernment of the Holy Spirit. Don’t ‘give up’ on all Southern Baptists’ blogs.
L’s,
Ask Ann S to be truthful and tell us how long she has been commenting on blogs. Ask her if she has ever commented at Debbie’s funhouse or Wade’s Goose Ranch.
Amen,
I’m proud to be a Christian. I believe in God, I believe His power and His Promise. I love my life now even when the road ahead seems so tough i know God is with me.
Matt.15:16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them.
*Man in this video is NOT Christ, but he is trying his best to be like Him, to have the wide array of emotions that Christ had, and the HONESTY, TRUTH, UNDERSTANDING and LOVE. I hope that one day you choose to follow the man, the LIVING GOD that is Christ, and understand that your comments about Chris Tse’s use of the “F-bomb” only verify this man’s poetic claims that as Christians, we can only find separation between “us” (whatever that means) and other human beings.
May the true God of wisdom and understanding be with you.