God Bless Dr. Ergun Caner. It must stop here. MuslimS and Christian do not worship the same God. Allah is not God of Israel. Even he will not say that. He will not Say he is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Which God handed down the Law.

And just so anyone would like to know. Isa is not the name of Jesus in Arabic. It’s Esau. Meaning “Jacob I loved Esau I hated. So the rolls have been reversed.

Blessings Gentlemen…………

Danny

Thank you for being the first one to bring a single verse of scripture into this discussion!

For the clarity of all, could you explain how you think these scriptures apply to the conversation? Forgive me for not being able to understand what you mean by those particular verses.

Blessings!

Paul said it this way: “1Co 9:19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.”

Luk 15:10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Amen

As an Arab Christian who regularly shares the gospel with Muslims in Lebanon and in the US, I would like to encourage you to question your finding that “many who argue such things have never shared with, much less spoken to a Muslim. ”
If you want to know the truth, you will find that the ones who DO use the Camel Method are predominantly people who have NOT grown up around arab/muslim cultures, and began studying Islam academically as an adult. In fact, the Camel Method was invented by Americans, and is rejected by a vast majority of real cultural insiders, because besides being theologically twisted, it is based off of a complete misunderstanding of eastern culture and Islam.

It is as if a Saudi came to America and started a Bible study with some nominal Christians and convinced them that the Bible actually says we should follow the prophet Muhammad. Then, if some of these ignorant Christians actually followed him, they began calling themselves “Christian followers of Muhammad”. Doesn’t it sound ridiculous when you picture it within your own culture? Yet this is what well-meaning Americans are taught to do in my culture, and it’s truly sad.

Ken, it is not about “lik[ing] or us[ing] the Camel”. Even if many of the critics of this method do not know the culture well, the more you know the culture, the more clear it will be to you that this method is truly preaching an incomplete and twisted gospel. That is why the word “heresy” has been used, and unfortunately it is accurate.

I, along with Tim Rogers would love to know where you are coming from, and what your experience is with Muslims. Have you found success with the Camel, or similar methods?

The IMB has formally condemned C5, so it seems to me that now all the insider types that they support are now vehemently claiming to be C4. I see this as nothing more than an attempt to keep their funding. If you want to know what they really believe, read their material below.

A few things to notice in the tract:

1. How much the Qur’an is quoted, with specific references, and how readers are encouraged to find a Qur’an in their language (pg 3)
2. How little the Bible is quoted, often without even a reference to which book or whose words the verse is.
3. Sonship of Christ is entirely missing.
4. Muhammad is a prophet, about whom they incessantly say “peace be upon him”
5. Isa is a prophet, about whom they do not even once say “peace be upon him”
6. Jesus is portrayed as scapegoat-saviour, but not as Lord.
7. Their goal is to create “Pakka Muslims” (true, or completed Muslims), not Christians.
8. There is no call to repentance or holiness.
9. The main conclusion is “if you want to go to heaven, say this prayer and Allah will put your sins on the prophet Isa” The tract ends with this:

“Today you, too, can become a Pakka Muslim. All you have to do is to believe that Allah gave the korban for you, substituting Isa for you. Stop now, hold your hands up before you, and humbly tell Allah that you receive His korban and thank Him for placing on Isa the punishment for your guilt and sins. In this way, Allah will forgive you of your sin and remove its curse from you. When you are cleansed of your sins, then you can go to be with Allah after you die. You can now live your life in peace knowing that after death you can go directly to be with Allah.”

My analysis is that they are advocating a superstitious belief that the Prophet Isa can give you a free ticket to paradise. This fits in great with the multitude of “folk-islamic” beliefs and superstitions that permeate the uneducated masses, but it’s not the true gospel. It’s disgusting how they are deceiving ignorant Muslims by twisting the Qur’an to say things that contradict itself.

C5 or not, this is heresy. Heresy, while a strong term, is exactly what this is.

Here is where you can find their tract: http://www.camelmethod.com/downloads/Ruhullah_English_eBook.pdf

David

First, thank you for reading the comments. However, to read the comments without listening to the podcast is like saying you do not like a preacher because of the comments you heard others say about his sermon. I do not believe you would do that, would you?

Second, as to our witnessing opportunities I believe you will note that all involved in this blog believe in and practice personal evangelism. Some do not have the same opportunities as others but that does not negate the fact that we regularly share our faith. Some live in less populated areas than others. For example Brother Wes lives in an area of Oklahoma that it took him two hours to get his wife to a hospital where they could do surgery. Not quite sure hos many Muslim compounds there are in that area for Brother Wes to target, but I can assure you that if he were to meet a Muslim in that isolated area he would share the truth of the Gospel with him/her.

Third, for those of us that live in a more populated area, such as me, we witness as the opportunity presents itself and even direct conversations to move to the direction of sharing the Gospel. Do we target Muslim communities? I cannot say that I do. Have I witnessed to Muslims? Yes I have. Do I use the camel method? No I do not. Do Muslims get mad at me? I will say some get agitated. Does that stop me from sharing the Gospel with Muslims? No, it does not. Have others become mad? No they have not? Why do I not target Muslim communities? I try not to target any certain group because of the location we find ourselves. I witness to people as the Lord brings them across my path. For a better understanding of this, I pray every morning the following prayer; “Lord, bring someone across my path today that I can share the gospel with, give me the wisdom to know that person when You bring him/her across my path, and give me the boldness to share the truth of the Gospel.” If that person is a Muslim then I witness to him/her. In the area I live there are multiple opportunities for me to cross paths with Muslims. For example I have a Physician that comes from India. He has heard my testimony and then gave me his testimony of how he came to Christ. I have a person at the local store that is from Pakistan. He is not a Christ follower, but He knows I believe in Jesus because I shared the Gospel with him.

Fourth, when was the last time you witnessed to a Muslim? Was in in the last year, two years, when? Also, if the Camel Method is a bridge, then why does it give the same authority to the Koran that it does to Scripture? If the Camel Method is a bridge, then why does it affirm the Isa of the Koran is the same as Jesus of the Scripture? Isa of the Koran is a created being, but would you say the same about Jesus of the Scriptures? Is the Allah of the Koran the same as Yahweh of the Scriptures? If Allah of the Koran is the same then please find me a Muslim that will affirm that Isa is Allah.

Blessings,
Tim

The question comes to my mind in reading all this is, “ok you do not like or use the Camel, no problem with that. Use what you think is biblical and theological correct. But my question is:

How many of you have shared the gospel with a Muslim in the last year? 2 Years? Ever? I honestly do not mean this mean spirited but what I find is that many who argue such things have never shared with , much less spoken to a Muslim. I could be wrong among those here.