Seriously, I’m a small church pastor. I answer to just about anything. Feel free to call me David.
I wish you well in your research.
David R. Brumbelow

I appreciate your references.

Thank you for sharing about what upsets you.
Personally, I believe that civil Christian people can learn from one another, with respect, and in dignity, in a way that celebrates what is shared in Christ the Lord, and yet does not attack the precious faith of the other person in any way that might cause pain. My belief is that there is much need among Christian people to try to understand one another and to pray for one another. Enough harm has been done, I think. I hope Christians will feel called to a time of healing of old wounds, in the Name of the Lord, whom we honor from the ages to the ages. But that, too, is in the hands of the Holy One, and in that knowledge, we may be peaceful.
Pax Christi,
Christiane

For more information on Premillennialism I’d recommend authors such as Jerry Vines, Adrian Rogers, Warren Wiersbe, J. Vernon McGee, Paige Patterson, W. A. Criswell (wacriswell.com), Dwight Pentecost, H. A. Ironside, Charles Ryrie, David Jeremiah, R. G. Lee.

Study Bibles like the Scofield Bible, Ryrie Study Bible, Criswell Study Bible (aka Believer’s Study Bible, Baptist Study Edition). Anything by Dallas Theological Seminary and Moody Press would likely be Premillennnial. Of course, I believe the best argument for Premillennialism is the Bible itself .
I’ve read that most of the early Church Fathers were Premillennial.

I’m not worried about those who would disagree on this issue. But what really, really annoys me is when people attack the Premillennial position by: 1. Attacking the character of leading Premillennialists. 2. Saying no credible scholars believe this view. 3. Taking the most extreme examples of Premillennialists and then implying that is what they all believe and that is how they all act. 4. Implying it is all some grand conspiracy.
David R. Brumbelow

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” -Ephraem the Syrian, AD 323
“This ancient scholar believed that ‘sore affliction’ would last one week of seven years, with ‘the great tribulation’ being 3 ½ years. He based that on Daniel’s prophecy of the seventy sevens.” -R. L. Sumner, Biblical Evangelist, November/December, 2009.

“The same author [Grant Jeffrey] in the same book quoted the illustrious John Gill (Spurgeon’s predecessor) as teaching the pretrib rapture in 1748 in his First Thessalonians commentary. He even called the snatching up of saints ‘the rapture,’ and said it would ‘be sudden, and unknown before-hand, and when least thought of and expected.’ While he is not as clear as a Tim LaHaye would be, perhaps, his language leaves no doubt about what he is arguing.” -R. L. Sumner

“There is the fourth vision in The Shepherd of Hermas (c. AD 110) which said ‘the elect’ would escape the Great Tribulation.” -R. L. Sumner

For anyone interested, you can subscribe to Sumner’s paper at biblicalevangelist.org, or find out more about it in my blog article for June 29, 2009 (gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com). Christiane, hope this helps.
David R. Brumbelow

Yes, there are a few references in Christian history to the idea of the Rapture, before the Scofield Bible (1909, 1917; 1967) and even before the 1800s. I’m pretty tied up right now, but if you are still interested, I can give a little information on that later today or tomorrow.

There is also much information about those who believed in the general idea of Premillennialism in the early centuries AD.
David R. Brumbelow

I pray you take the time to read the above exchange. L’s is lost. She needs the witness of the gospel. I hope some of you will take a moment and do a good thing here and share with this lady the gospel. I pray she comes back and reads it.

Some things are more important than SBC politics. This is truly one thing that is. This woman has been commenting on Baptist blogs for some time now. She needs the gospel. We have the gospel. Share with her the biblical gospel in love.

cb

Your concern for the Rapture may help get you saved. I am glad you read this blog. There are people over here who strongly believe the gospel and have true Christian love for lost people.

I am going to post the last part of the comment thread from Debbie’s blog post over here. I pray that some of the folks over here will try to help you to see your need for the biblical gospel as they read the comments.

Folks,

PLease read this. This dear lady is lost and entrapped in a works based theology as you will see when you read the exchange between her and Tim G. Pray for this woman and share the truth with her.

Here is why I am concerned with the state of her soul:

“Christi,
I have been wondering when someone would two and two together. You did. Your statement is why I do not “buy” the lines about “hurt children” or one side should repent or…!
The peace will come when people cease from attacking history and deal with the issues at hand today – reaching lost people for JESUS! In fact, the average person sitting in a pew in most churches does not have a clue nor do they care much if anything about SBC politics.

Christiane
November 9, 2009 at 11:06 pm | #115 Quote
Tim, I do think that there are some who need to repent and seek forgiveness of those that they have injured. And justice for the injured comes before seeking the forgiveness of the Lord. I emphasize the word ‘need’.

cb scott
November 9, 2009 at 11:10 pm | #116 Quote
L’s,
Nothing on this earth comes before seeking forgiveness from the Lord.
Surely, every Christian regardless of how you feel about the SBC, politics or anything else will affair that truth.
Nothing else on this earth comes before seeking forgiveness from the Lord.
It is time for everyone to share this with our beloved L’s.
cb

Christiane
November 9, 2009 at 11:51 pm | #117 Quote
Hi CB,
I was thinking of this teaching:
If you are the offender, again, your responsibility is to take the initiative. “If therefore you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering” (Matthew 5:23-24).
If your brother has something against you, then evidently you have offended him, and you are to make the first move. The Scripture knows nothing like, “Well it was more his fault. He should come to me.” God wants alienated brothers and sisters in Christ to be reconciled. And whichever role you fit, the offended or the offender, if you want to obey the Word of God you will reach out. Biblically, it is always your move.”
Love you dearly,
Caritas Christi,
L’s

Debbie Kaufman
November 10, 2009 at 2:02 am | #118 Quote
Christiane: Bingo, Bingo and Bingo. That is exactly my point. Good words sister.

cb scott
November 10, 2009 at 7:57 am | #119 Quote
L’s and Debbie,
Matthew 5:23-24 is in reference to someone in worship preparing to give an offering to the Lord. The admonition is that if you realize there is a problem between you and a brother you must reconcile that before God will graciously accept your offering.
The passage is not saying, in any way, that it is necessary to be reconciled or forgiven by your brother or sister before you are to seek forgiveness from the Lord.
Debbie, notice L’s statement. She said:
“And justice for the injured comes before seeking the forgiveness of the Lord.”
Debbie, that constitutes a works based conception of salvation. Debbie, L’s is trapped in a false theology wherein she believes she is saved by works. She actually believes that by providing such things as “justice” for hurting people or showing love by feeding the hungry gains acceptance from God. That is not the biblical gospel.
Debbie, L’s is lost and on her way to hell and you say “Bingo, Bingo, and Bingo” to her false security of being right with God?
Debbie, you have some influence with this dear woman. Reconsider what you are saying. This is not a game. This is her life. She is a real person. Her soul hangs in the balance of heaven and hell. Don’t fold here. Tell her the truth.
All of you other people who have commented on this thread; PLEASE WAKE UP. TELL L’s THE TRUTH.
L’s, obedience is better than sacrifice is what the Bible teaches. We are saved when we repent of sin and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. (Mark 1:14-15) L’s please consider the story found in Luke 18:10-14. It is the repentant sinner who goes home justified. It is not the person who seeks “justice for the injured.”
Seeking justice for the injured is good but, you are in great error to say; ” And justice for the injured comes before seeking the forgiveness of the Lord.”
L’s your compassion for injured people is good, but it is not sufficient to save your soul.
cb”