A Conference I Will Be Attending
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I am looking forward to the Acts 1:11 Conference that will take place November 12-13, 2009. North Metro First Baptist Church will host this conference. Click on the picture to find the registration details. I look forward to this conference for several reasons.
First, you will never hear any better exposition of God’s word in America than you will from those preaching at this conference. Every speaker is known for being an expositor of God’s word and each one’s position on the Pre-Millennial rapture of the church is a result of proper exegesis of the Scripture. Second, this is the Kentucky Derby of all conferences. In the Kentucky Derby you cannot register just any old hag to run. The horse has to be a thoroughbred race horse. Boy, did Dr. Vines line up the thoroughbreds for this conference! It begins with Dr. Jerry Vines. I liken him to the last Triple Crown Winner Affirmed, who during all three Triple Crown races was challenged by Alydar. Affirmed prevailed in every race in which Alydar challenged him. Dr. Vines has certainly prevailed in all of the mini races he has run, but the race he runs for Christ is certainly one in which he excels. Dr. Vines is certainly the Statesman of the SBC. His service to Southern Baptist churches and our convention, including his stands on the Scripture, have been rivaled by none. Dr. Vines preaches with the passion of a zealot and the heart of Christ. He reminds me of that song by Newsong, Finger Tips and Noses. The song tells of a school for special needs children. The teacher in this school told them about Jesus and how he would return to get us one day. The song goes on to explain that they cannot keep the windows clean because the children press their finger tips and noses against it so they can see Jesus when he returns. I imagine that Mrs. Vines has a hard time keeping the windows of their house clean because Dr. Vines is pressing his fingers and nose close to the window looking for Jesus’ return.
Dr. Junior Hill will end the conference. I liken Dr. Hill to the 1937 Triple Crown Winner War Admiral who injured his right foreleg coming out of the gate in the Belmont but went on to complete the triple crown win. Dr. Hill, in one of his books, tells the story of going through the painful time of a forced resignation. Many would have looked for something else to do even within the Christian world, but not Dr. Hill. He saw it as God’s leading him to be an encourager for pastors, and encourage us he has. Dr. Hill went into full time evangelism in 1967 after serving in the pastorate for eleven years. He has been preaching for over 50 years and can still shuck the corn. Dr. Hill gives practical advice from Biblical truths in every message he presents.
This conference will be a scholar’s dream. Dr. Vines has filled this conference with scholars par excellence; Dr. Ergun Caner, Dr. Danny Akin, Dr. Paige Patterson, Dr. David Allen and Dr. Richard Land. Looking at the schedule, each session will cover a biblical perspective from the position of a Pre-Millennial return of Christ. I look forward to hearing God’s choice servants as they present God’s word. Maybe the rapture will happen while we are there. 
42 Comments
November 5th, 2009 at 7:07 am
Glad to hear that you are well enough to attend.
Actually how long were ALL you SBCTODAY boys in the hospital?
I realize you guys have been very sick and could not post of late.
I will buy you a cup of coffee in Atlanta. That is if you are not still contagious. If you are, I will send you a cough-drop and a bottle of hand sanitizer over to your table at lunch.
cb
November 5th, 2009 at 8:25 am
Brother CB,
You are going to do more than buy me a cup of that ole stanky Starbucks coffee. I am looking a Prime Rib dinner from you. Dr. Vines is providing with this conference a meal from down under. No, Steve Grose will not be cooking, but Outback Steakhouse will provide the evening meal on Thursday. Therefore, on Friday for lunch I am looking for you to provide a Prime Rib for me a Ruth’s Cris. All you have to do is click here and you can reserve us a table for Friday.
Blessings,
Tim
November 5th, 2009 at 9:47 am
The “Acts 1:11 Conference” sounds great. Even if you do not believe the premillennial position, or are unsure of it, this conference is worth attending. You may be surprised at their biblical exposition. Some of the best, most credible proponents of this view will be preaching.
David R. Brumbelow
November 5th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
For the record, I’ll be dining at Fogo de Chao (www.fogodechao.com) in Buckhead on Wednesday evening the night before the conference begins. It’s “Man Land” at its best.
Looking forward to saying hello in person again, Tim.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Tim,
I hope you enjoy the conference. I have a challenge to any premill/pretrib rapture person to provide one biblical verse, or passage, in context, that states that Christ will remove His church from the earth prior to the so-called “tribulation.” Perhaps you can pass my challenge along to the “scholars” at the conference.
I’m not trying to be difficult or argumentative. Just point me to one verse or passage in context that supports a pre-mill/pre-trib rapture. I can’t find it in my Bible.
Thanks.
Les
November 6th, 2009 at 5:15 am
Brother Les,
Maybe you need to get another Bible.
As for your desire to place forth a challenge, maybe you should attend the conference before you make such a challenge. I believe you will find plenty of references from these scholars.
I also believe you need to seek another way of accentuating your words that you write. You used the term “so-called” then you placed “tribulation” in quotation marks. Thus, you have pointed out that you do not believe the Bible teaches a tribulation and that those who do are merely making it up to fit their theology. That is fine as that is your opinion and you have a right to be wrong.
I will defend to the death your right to be wrong on this point and also your right to state that you believe differently. However, you then use the word “scholars” in the same manner. Do you really want to call into question the scholarship of Dr.’s Caner, Patterson, Vines, Akin, Land, Allen, and Hill? You may want to re-evaluate your wording of that phrase. That is, since you are not trying to be difficult or argumentative.
Blessings,
Tim
November 6th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Les,
By the way you have emphasized the word scholar (“scholar”) it seems that you would question the scholarship of either some or all of the conference speakers.
That is what it seems to me. Naturally, I could be wrong. So I ask you; Are you supposing some or all of these men not to be scholars or maybe just not scholarly?
cb
November 6th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Will there be anyone younger than 45 attending?
November 6th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Yes, there will be many people younger than 45 or even 35.
Why would you ask that Rick?
cb
November 6th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Technically Les is right. There is a difference from being “scholarly” and a scholar.
A scholar is solely consumed with research within a very small parameter of discipline. A scholar is usually located in a very small corner of a very large University.
Scholarly is an adjective describing how a person would approach a given topic etc. A person can be scholarly without being a scholar, as in Dr. Vines is a scholarly preacher. And inverse, the scholar Dr. Allen handled the text with careful and scholarly exposition.
November 6th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Tim,
As per Rick’s comment, the only scholar among the list of speakers is David Allen. However, I didn’t intend to get this thread off topic. I hope everyone has a great time at the conference.
If you really want to address my challenge, come talk about it at my blog on Monday.
Les
November 6th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Tim,
One last thing. I do believe in a coming tribulation. I just don’t see where scripture directly says it’s seven years in length. My remark of “so-called tribulation” should have read “so-called 7 year tribulation.” As Danny Akin said a few weeks ago, “Sorry for the slip of the pen.”
Les
November 6th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Rick,
It was not Les that presented the difference between “scholar” and “scholarly.” It was me.
And Les did not answer my question relating to the difference.
cb
November 6th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
CB,
Sorry, brother. I missed your comment. I agree with
Rick’s definitions.
Les
November 6th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Second question for Les:
Les, are you saying a person cannot hold a pre-mil position and be a scholar?
Les, you comment gave the implication that these men were not scholars and you are able to make that judgement because you are.
You have done a fly-by here Les and then called Tim to come by your blog on Monday and discuss it. Does that mean your blog is for scholars and scholarly dialogue and this one is not?
Then you fire off a shot at Danny Akin about the “slip of the pen” thing of a few weeks ago. Les, maybe a gut-check is called for here on your part. What do you think?
cb
November 6th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Caner, Land, Patterson, and Akin all have advanced degrees (Ph.D.) and numerous publications, both popular and academic.
I don’t know what line of logic brought Les to that conclusion.
Patterson is older and might not publish as much as he used to. By the nature of his career, Land’s publications are geared more towards the average person in the public square. But that does not mean that either man stopped being a scholar.
How do you think all of the speakers got to where they are today? Scholarship…
You don’t become a tenured professor unless you are a scholar.
Now, whether these gentlemen are experts on the subject-matter being discussed at the conference is certainly an entirely different question that I really don’t know the answer to.
November 6th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Big Daddy,
Thank you. And well said.
A scholarly answer to a question about scholars and scholars and scholarship.
BTW, folks Vines is certainly a scholar. His books on the development and delivery of biblical sermons is used in may institutions as a textbook.
He has never taught in a college or seminary as far as I know. But he is a scholar nonetheless.
We often fail to realize that pastors are to be theologians and scholars as much or more so than those who teach in institutions.
A pastor should be scholarly every time he develops a sermon from the Sacred Text. Naturally, he should deliver it in his own God given personality, but his preparation should be scholarly.
Vines is a scholar.
cb
November 6th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
I am the definition of someone who is neither a scholar, nor scholarly.
David
November 6th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
My word, I have taken a break today and come back tonight after our Turkey Shoot to support Lottie for the Missionaries and find that a debate arose while I was absent. To make matters worse I had my favorite Moderate to express for us those presenting messages at the conference are scholars. I must admit that I am flat out flabbergasted at the direction this comment stream has taken.
Brother David,
Thanks for setting the record straight. I would have never figured that one out on my own.
BTW, you are more of a scholar than you give yourself credit.
Brother Les,
I will see what I can do on Monday. However, as you know the state convention Pastors Conference begins then and I may be tied up involved in that.
Brother CB,
I will not engage you right now as you are doing a fine job carrying your own water.
Brother Rick,
Will you be attending?
Blessings,
Tim
November 7th, 2009 at 12:34 am
CB,
My “gut” has been checked just fine, thank you very much. As a matter of fact my gut is hanging over my belt way too much these days. Too much mashed potatoes and meatloaf.
You read way too much into my remarks, my friend. If I had half of the motives you’ve assigned to me, I woulda had a better showing at that SBC President thing.
Les
November 7th, 2009 at 12:37 am
Big Daddy,
You’re a very bright young man and I know that you know that just because a man has an advanced degree that doesn’t necessarily make him a scholar.
Les
November 7th, 2009 at 2:32 am
Les,
Let me then come right to the point and I apologize for not coming to it sooner.
Do you believe Paige Patterson not to be a scholar?
cb
November 7th, 2009 at 10:44 am
CB and others,
Sometimes my zeal overtakes my heart and my mouth and the Lord continues to work with me on this. Although I strongly disagree with dispensationalism, I should not have attacked those who hold to the its tenets, therefore I repent of my mischaracterization of the conference speakers as not being scholars. My disagreement with their eschatological conclusions does not reduce their scholarship in any way.
Enjoy the conference.
Les
November 7th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Les,
You are an honorable man. And one to ride the river with any day.
cb
November 7th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I would like to take a personal privilege and ask you all to take a moment and remember the LSU TIGER as he once was a cuddly kitten that we all loved. He is about to become roadkill in the TIDAL path of the SABANATION.
ROLL TIDE
cb
November 7th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
One more thing;
For those of you who follow Jr High Football Nations:
The Iowa BUZZARDEYE NATION was soundly defeated by another and lesser Jr. High Football Nation. NORTHWESTERN NATION has de-feathered the BUZZARD.
Sorry Dave Miller, my heart goes out to you as your dreams are crushed once again in hopes of playing BIG NATION football.
cb
November 7th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
I know I’m returning late to the party.
But I would agree that many first class scholars are premillennialists. Dr. Paige Patterson is obviously one of them. I do not understand why many refuse to recognize this fact; it shows their obvious bias. I appreciate Big Daddy’s comments on this as well as you other guys.
By the way, I have no problem recognizing that many amillennialists are also first class scholars. I don’t deny their scholarship, I just disagree with them. I wish those on the other side would afford us the same courtesy. Also, I appreciate Les’ last comments.
May you all have a great Lord’s Day. Even you confounded amillennialists
.
David R. Brumbelow
November 7th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
David Brumbelow,
PLease forgive the intrusion, but it is necessary to report that the SABANATION just beat the LSU NATION.
I know you will understand my interruption of your dialogue due to the greatness of our power over all other football nations.
I am sure that each and every one of the speakers for the Acts 1:11 Conference are overjoyed with this news. I am sure this will give each of them a desire to do the best they can during the conference because they know many from the SABANATION will be in attendance and we are used to greatness and will expect no less from them.
If any of them were not going to be scholarly before today, I am sure that our win over LSU will inspire them to be scholarly next week during the conference.
cb
November 8th, 2009 at 8:02 am
Brother CB,
Pride goeth before a fall. The next Florida team you will be playing will be UoF not FI.
Tim
November 8th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Tim,
How can you accuse me of being prideful? I was just making a point that all of the conference speakers will be much more scholarly now that they have inspiration due to so many Sabanites coming to the Acts 1:11 Conference.
Tim, it is a scientifically proven fact that greatness inspires greatness.
Therefore, when all of us folks from the SABANATION walk into North-Metro next week it will probably bring out the best in all of those speakers.
Them boys scholarship level will probably tweak right on up there to the level we are used to down here in Alabama if not higher……That is if those boy’s brains can stand their brilliance volume going up so high all at one time.
I tell you what, brother. Next week at North-Metro is going to be something with all that high volume scholarship going on.
Ole Frank Cox might break out in interpretative dance or speaking in tongues.
cb
November 8th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
CB,
.
Pardon me for diverting attention from what is most important
David R. Brumbelow
November 8th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
David Brumbelow,
You are forgiven my brother. We all get diverted from time-to-time.
cb
November 8th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
What’s the likelihood of having an SBC conference on Amillenialism or Partial Preterism? That would personally interest me. Though I am sure the speakers at the Acts 1:11 conference will do a fine job presenting their point of view(s). I do not believe any system of eschatology is perfect, but it would be great to discuss more than the mainstream view of Dispensationalism in the SBC.
November 9th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Does anyone have any references to \’the Rapture\’ as a doctrine prior to the footnotes in the Scofield Bible? Thanks, if you can help.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:38 am
L’s,
Your concern for the Rapture may help get you saved. I am glad you read this blog. There are people over here who strongly believe the gospel and have true Christian love for lost people.
I am going to post the last part of the comment thread from Debbie’s blog post over here. I pray that some of the folks over here will try to help you to see your need for the biblical gospel as they read the comments.
Folks,
PLease read this. This dear lady is lost and entrapped in a works based theology as you will see when you read the exchange between her and Tim G. Pray for this woman and share the truth with her.
Here is why I am concerned with the state of her soul:
“Christi,
I have been wondering when someone would two and two together. You did. Your statement is why I do not “buy” the lines about “hurt children” or one side should repent or…!
The peace will come when people cease from attacking history and deal with the issues at hand today – reaching lost people for JESUS! In fact, the average person sitting in a pew in most churches does not have a clue nor do they care much if anything about SBC politics.
Christiane
November 9, 2009 at 11:06 pm | #115 Quote
Tim, I do think that there are some who need to repent and seek forgiveness of those that they have injured. And justice for the injured comes before seeking the forgiveness of the Lord. I emphasize the word ‘need’.
cb scott
November 9, 2009 at 11:10 pm | #116 Quote
L’s,
Nothing on this earth comes before seeking forgiveness from the Lord.
Surely, every Christian regardless of how you feel about the SBC, politics or anything else will affair that truth.
Nothing else on this earth comes before seeking forgiveness from the Lord.
It is time for everyone to share this with our beloved L’s.
cb
Christiane
November 9, 2009 at 11:51 pm | #117 Quote
Hi CB,
I was thinking of this teaching:
If you are the offender, again, your responsibility is to take the initiative. “If therefore you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering” (Matthew 5:23-24).
If your brother has something against you, then evidently you have offended him, and you are to make the first move. The Scripture knows nothing like, “Well it was more his fault. He should come to me.” God wants alienated brothers and sisters in Christ to be reconciled. And whichever role you fit, the offended or the offender, if you want to obey the Word of God you will reach out. Biblically, it is always your move.”
Love you dearly,
Caritas Christi,
L’s
Debbie Kaufman
November 10, 2009 at 2:02 am | #118 Quote
Christiane: Bingo, Bingo and Bingo. That is exactly my point. Good words sister.
cb scott
November 10, 2009 at 7:57 am | #119 Quote
L’s and Debbie,
Matthew 5:23-24 is in reference to someone in worship preparing to give an offering to the Lord. The admonition is that if you realize there is a problem between you and a brother you must reconcile that before God will graciously accept your offering.
The passage is not saying, in any way, that it is necessary to be reconciled or forgiven by your brother or sister before you are to seek forgiveness from the Lord.
Debbie, notice L’s statement. She said:
“And justice for the injured comes before seeking the forgiveness of the Lord.”
Debbie, that constitutes a works based conception of salvation. Debbie, L’s is trapped in a false theology wherein she believes she is saved by works. She actually believes that by providing such things as “justice” for hurting people or showing love by feeding the hungry gains acceptance from God. That is not the biblical gospel.
Debbie, L’s is lost and on her way to hell and you say “Bingo, Bingo, and Bingo” to her false security of being right with God?
Debbie, you have some influence with this dear woman. Reconsider what you are saying. This is not a game. This is her life. She is a real person. Her soul hangs in the balance of heaven and hell. Don’t fold here. Tell her the truth.
All of you other people who have commented on this thread; PLEASE WAKE UP. TELL L’s THE TRUTH.
L’s, obedience is better than sacrifice is what the Bible teaches. We are saved when we repent of sin and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. (Mark 1:14-15) L’s please consider the story found in Luke 18:10-14. It is the repentant sinner who goes home justified. It is not the person who seeks “justice for the injured.”
Seeking justice for the injured is good but, you are in great error to say; ” And justice for the injured comes before seeking the forgiveness of the Lord.”
L’s your compassion for injured people is good, but it is not sufficient to save your soul.
cb”
November 10th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Fellows,
I pray you take the time to read the above exchange. L’s is lost. She needs the witness of the gospel. I hope some of you will take a moment and do a good thing here and share with this lady the gospel. I pray she comes back and reads it.
Some things are more important than SBC politics. This is truly one thing that is. This woman has been commenting on Baptist blogs for some time now. She needs the gospel. We have the gospel. Share with her the biblical gospel in love.
cb
November 10th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Christiane,
Yes, there are a few references in Christian history to the idea of the Rapture, before the Scofield Bible (1909, 1917; 1967) and even before the 1800s. I’m pretty tied up right now, but if you are still interested, I can give a little information on that later today or tomorrow.
There is also much information about those who believed in the general idea of Premillennialism in the early centuries AD.
David R. Brumbelow
November 10th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
R. L. Sumner recently wrote on the subject of ancient quotes concerning the Pre-Tribulational Rapture of the church.
“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” -Ephraem the Syrian, AD 323
“This ancient scholar believed that ‘sore affliction’ would last one week of seven years, with ‘the great tribulation’ being 3 ½ years. He based that on Daniel’s prophecy of the seventy sevens.” -R. L. Sumner, Biblical Evangelist, November/December, 2009.
“The same author [Grant Jeffrey] in the same book quoted the illustrious John Gill (Spurgeon’s predecessor) as teaching the pretrib rapture in 1748 in his First Thessalonians commentary. He even called the snatching up of saints ‘the rapture,’ and said it would ‘be sudden, and unknown before-hand, and when least thought of and expected.’ While he is not as clear as a Tim LaHaye would be, perhaps, his language leaves no doubt about what he is arguing.” -R. L. Sumner
“There is the fourth vision in The Shepherd of Hermas (c. AD 110) which said ‘the elect’ would escape the Great Tribulation.” -R. L. Sumner
For anyone interested, you can subscribe to Sumner’s paper at biblicalevangelist.org, or find out more about it in my blog article for June 29, 2009 (gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com). Christiane, hope this helps.
David R. Brumbelow
November 10th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Thank you, David Brumbelow,
I appreciate your kind offer of assistance. I do not wish to put you to any unnecessary work, but if you would share a few web sites, I would appreciate that. I am aware of some of the controversy surrounding ‘chiliasm’ in the early centuries of the Church, and I am aware of the writings of Irenaeus which were in opposition.
Thanking you again for your kindness,
Pax Christi,
Christiane
November 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Christiane,
I don’t know of a lot of websites that would deal with Premillennialism.
As I mentioned before, R. L. Sumner’s paper sometimes deals with the issue. His most recent issue critiqued a book attacking C. I. Scofield. Also, Sumner’s new book, Fights I Didn’t Start, and Some I Did, deals with a couple of aspects of Premillennialism. Maybe also, timlahaye.com. As you probably know, Premillennialists themselves often disagree on many aspects of Eschatology. Also, though I am a Premillennialist, I would be embarrassed by some of them.
For more information on Premillennialism I’d recommend authors such as Jerry Vines, Adrian Rogers, Warren Wiersbe, J. Vernon McGee, Paige Patterson, W. A. Criswell (wacriswell.com), Dwight Pentecost, H. A. Ironside, Charles Ryrie, David Jeremiah, R. G. Lee.
Study Bibles like the Scofield Bible, Ryrie Study Bible, Criswell Study Bible (aka Believer’s Study Bible, Baptist Study Edition). Anything by Dallas Theological Seminary and Moody Press would likely be Premillennnial. Of course, I believe the best argument for Premillennialism is the Bible itself
.
I’ve read that most of the early Church Fathers were Premillennial.
I’m not worried about those who would disagree on this issue. But what really, really annoys me is when people attack the Premillennial position by: 1. Attacking the character of leading Premillennialists. 2. Saying no credible scholars believe this view. 3. Taking the most extreme examples of Premillennialists and then implying that is what they all believe and that is how they all act. 4. Implying it is all some grand conspiracy.
David R. Brumbelow
November 11th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Thank you David Brumbelow ( I don’t know if you are a minister, a doctor, or a ‘Mr.’, so forgive absence of a proper title)
I appreciate your references.
Thank you for sharing about what upsets you.
Personally, I believe that civil Christian people can learn from one another, with respect, and in dignity, in a way that celebrates what is shared in Christ the Lord, and yet does not attack the precious faith of the other person in any way that might cause pain. My belief is that there is much need among Christian people to try to understand one another and to pray for one another. Enough harm has been done, I think. I hope Christians will feel called to a time of healing of old wounds, in the Name of the Lord, whom we honor from the ages to the ages. But that, too, is in the hands of the Holy One, and in that knowledge, we may be peaceful.
Pax Christi,
Christiane
November 11th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Christiane,
.
I’m not a doctor; I’m not even a Registered Nurse. I do have a Master’s degree; so you can call me Master Brumbelow
Seriously, I’m a small church pastor. I answer to just about anything. Feel free to call me David.
I wish you well in your research.
David R. Brumbelow