Comments on: Baptists and the Bible: By What Authority? http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority A forum for Baptists to dialogue about how best to fulfill God’s calling in our lives. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 00:58:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Steve http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9868 Steve Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:18:08 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9868 No Sir you did not ask, inquire or write to me requesting information about my intent, rather you immediately made hypotheses about my intent, hypotheses that presupposed that I was being intentionally deceitful. And you stated such. Sir, you have substantiated my claims against you by your behaviour, which again I state is unworthy behaviour for an elder. I have appropriately warned you. Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned. I would encourage you to repent on this matter. Steve No Sir you did not ask, inquire or write to me requesting information about my intent, rather you immediately made hypotheses about my intent, hypotheses that presupposed that I was being intentionally deceitful. And you stated such.

Sir, you have substantiated my claims against you by your behaviour, which again I state is unworthy behaviour for an elder.

I have appropriately warned you.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

I would encourage you to repent on this matter.

Steve

]]> By: John Fariss http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9867 John Fariss Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:18:44 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9867 Thanks for the warning. I will take it under advisement, and suggest that when you point a finger at others, you have four fingers pointing back at yourself. I was "surmising deceit" simply because I asked about your intent? You read a lot into very few words, and upon scant evidence. And to my list of faults, besides being paranoid, an antagonist, a fight-seeker, and bully, you have now discerned that I am not sincere? Wow! Brother--and I take you at your word that you are a brother in Christ--these are words that, before I became a Christian, and before my skin thickened up in the pastorate, I would be terribly upset about. I started to say that I forgive you, but I am not sure if I am doing that or simply excusing them, as as we have no relationship. Interesting: my anti-spam word is "love." With that, I am ending my comments in this thread, so if you choose to add anything else, you will have the final word. Because He lives, John Thanks for the warning. I will take it under advisement, and suggest that when you point a finger at others, you have four fingers pointing back at yourself.

I was “surmising deceit” simply because I asked about your intent? You read a lot into very few words, and upon scant evidence. And to my list of faults, besides being paranoid, an antagonist, a fight-seeker, and bully, you have now discerned that I am not sincere? Wow! Brother–and I take you at your word that you are a brother in Christ–these are words that, before I became a Christian, and before my skin thickened up in the pastorate, I would be terribly upset about. I started to say that I forgive you, but I am not sure if I am doing that or simply excusing them, as as we have no relationship.

Interesting: my anti-spam word is “love.”

With that, I am ending my comments in this thread, so if you choose to add anything else, you will have the final word.

Because He lives,

John

]]> By: Steve http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9866 Steve Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:53:50 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9866 Sir I was offended as is evident by your antagonistic attitude in surmising deceit, and false motives behind my post! Your apology is not acceptable for your insistence for an apology from me for calling you antagonistic makes me realise that you are not sincere. You stated a few times "if his aim". Sir, you have never met me yet you insinuate deceit. The kinder softer answer was to imply that you were unable to help a paranoid display. If you are not paranoid, then you must take full responsibility for your remarks. Your behaviour remains inappropriate for an elder. This is a second warning. Steve Sir I was offended as is evident by your antagonistic attitude in surmising deceit, and false motives behind my post! Your apology is not acceptable for your insistence for an apology from me for calling you antagonistic makes me realise that you are not sincere.
You stated a few times “if his aim”. Sir, you have never met me yet you insinuate deceit. The kinder softer answer was to imply that you were unable to help a paranoid display. If you are not paranoid, then you must take full responsibility for your remarks.
Your behaviour remains inappropriate for an elder. This is a second warning.
Steve

]]> By: John Fariss http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9865 John Fariss Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:01:31 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9865 Steve, your comments remind me of Shakespeare's line, "The lady doth protest too much methinks." I have not attacked you. I tried to understand you, and offered a couple of possibilities. You'll have to accept my Southern ignorance--I'm not even sure what an "ad hominem argument" is, although the phrase is frequently bandied about on blogs nowdays. And bullying you? Please. Let me offer another scenario: you said in your comment #3 that you "just wanted to draw out the antagonists." However, I am the only person who replied to the entry. Could it be that in the absence of other "antagonists," you let go towards me with all the bitterness and anger and angst and whatever else your shotgun is loaded with, even though my comment was more of a scrawney rabbit than a charging elephant? The Bible says, "A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger" (Proverbs 15:1). You obviously interpreted my words as "grevious." And although I am not responsible for your perception, as did not intend them that way, for my part I do apologize. But Sir, your words toward me were anything but soft. According to you, I am paranoid, an antagonist, a fight-seeker, and now a bully. I am offended, and you owe me an appology. John Steve, your comments remind me of Shakespeare’s line, “The lady doth protest too much methinks.” I have not attacked you. I tried to understand you, and offered a couple of possibilities. You’ll have to accept my Southern ignorance–I’m not even sure what an “ad hominem argument” is, although the phrase is frequently bandied about on blogs nowdays. And bullying you? Please.

Let me offer another scenario: you said in your comment #3 that you “just wanted to draw out the antagonists.” However, I am the only person who replied to the entry. Could it be that in the absence of other “antagonists,” you let go towards me with all the bitterness and anger and angst and whatever else your shotgun is loaded with, even though my comment was more of a scrawney rabbit than a charging elephant?

The Bible says, “A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger” (Proverbs 15:1). You obviously interpreted my words as “grevious.” And although I am not responsible for your perception, as did not intend them that way, for my part I do apologize. But Sir, your words toward me were anything but soft. According to you, I am paranoid, an antagonist, a fight-seeker, and now a bully. I am offended, and you owe me an appology.

John

]]> By: Steve http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9864 Steve Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:16:14 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9864 Would it not have been more appropriate to have simply apologised for your false ad hominem attack and moved on? Would it not have been more appropriate to have simply apologised for your false ad hominem attack and moved on?

]]> By: Steve http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9863 Steve Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:15:07 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9863 I see , so if I challenge your statement "if his aim is to say that when Christ changes a life, it means acceptance of his particular worldview, then I would have to suggest that he is operating with some presuppositions that he himself probably does not recognize–one of which is an Enlightenment perspective on interpretation" as being paranoid, and indicating John that you are a person who seems to want to accuse people falsely without just reason, and seeks by bulying and ad hominem argument to acheive personal glory, and you now threaten me with eternal damnation? hmmm seems like someone really is a bit paranoid and overbearing? Perchance as an elder would this be appropriate behaviour? I see , so if I challenge your statement “if his aim is to say that when Christ changes a life, it means acceptance of his particular worldview, then I would have to suggest that he is operating with some presuppositions that he himself probably does not recognize–one of which is an Enlightenment perspective on interpretation” as being paranoid, and indicating John that you are a person who seems to want to accuse people falsely without just reason, and seeks by bulying and ad hominem argument to acheive personal glory, and you now threaten me with eternal damnation? hmmm seems like someone really is a bit paranoid and overbearing? Perchance as an elder would this be appropriate behaviour?

]]> By: John Fariss http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9862 John Fariss Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:09:17 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9862 If you think I "want a fight everywhere (I) go," then you do not know me at all. Even though I often disagree theologically with the "SBC Today" folks, when they write something with which I agree, I tell them so. I believe the last comment I made on this blog (before this thread) was to agree with some article. If you noticed, I even affirmed your comments about science becomming the arbitor of truth through the Enlightenment and its application to Christianity. I am about the least fractious person you will find who actually has passions and convictions. I also plainly state that I am unclear about your intent. If you think that makes me paranoid, well, it's a free country, and you have the right to be wrong. The rest was simply exploring possibilities. You might want to check the meaning of the terms you use before you apply them, least you be found making false accusations--for you (and I) will someday stand before the final Judge, and be held accountable for our words, attitudes, and actions. John If you think I “want a fight everywhere (I) go,” then you do not know me at all. Even though I often disagree theologically with the “SBC Today” folks, when they write something with which I agree, I tell them so. I believe the last comment I made on this blog (before this thread) was to agree with some article. If you noticed, I even affirmed your comments about science becomming the arbitor of truth through the Enlightenment and its application to Christianity. I am about the least fractious person you will find who actually has passions and convictions.

I also plainly state that I am unclear about your intent. If you think that makes me paranoid, well, it’s a free country, and you have the right to be wrong. The rest was simply exploring possibilities. You might want to check the meaning of the terms you use before you apply them, least you be found making false accusations–for you (and I) will someday stand before the final Judge, and be held accountable for our words, attitudes, and actions.

John

]]> By: volfan007 http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9861 volfan007 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:44:10 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9861 Grosey, Keeping it real from the land down under. David :) Grosey,

Keeping it real from the land down under.

David :)

]]> By: Steve http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9860 Steve Mon, 05 Oct 2009 22:28:48 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9860 aahhh John, just wanted to draw out the antagonists... wow do you make up stuff between the lines every time you read something? I believe that is called Paranoia I believe I asserted a. the Supremacy of Scripture. b. the authority of scripture. c. I did not negate other sources of authority. And ..every Baptist can assert this, because it is a Baptist Distinctive. The piece is about Baptist Distinctives at a Baptist blog... seems you want a fight everywhere you go. aahhh John, just wanted to draw out the antagonists… wow do you make up stuff between the lines every time you read something? I believe that is called Paranoia I believe I asserted
a. the Supremacy of Scripture.
b. the authority of scripture.
c. I did not negate other sources of authority.
And ..every Baptist can assert this, because it is a Baptist Distinctive. The piece is about Baptist Distinctives at a Baptist blog… seems you want a fight everywhere you go.

]]> By: John Fariss http://sbctoday.com/2009/10/02/baptists-and-the-bible-by-what-authority/#comment-9859 John Fariss Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:01:12 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/?p=1812#comment-9859 I must have read this three or four times now, and I am still unclear what Pastor Grose's intent is; and by the lack of comments, I don't think I am alone in this. If he is simply saying that the written Word is God's revelation and the standard by which we are to evaluate all matters of faith and practice, well, that is something most Baptists would affirm--whether they are fundmental, conservative, or moderate, and whether SBC, CBF, Free Will, National Baptists, or independent, and several more besides. He is furthermore right when he says in, "The Enlightenment . . . science became the determiner of truth." I would go further than he does. When people who claim the name of "conservative Christians" look for God in the dark corners of science (if science can't explain it, it proves God is there), they are tacitly accepting reason or science as the arbitor of reality. On the other hand--if his aim is to say either that the revelation of the written Word should be accepted alone, while reason, experience, and community are ignored, then I must disagree, and on Biblical grounds. (If "taste and see that that Lord is good" is not aimed at experience, I don't know what is; if the conversion of the Philippian jailer's family is not related to community, it missed a good chance; and if reason is to be jetisoned, then so must be every systematic theology book ever written.) Furthrmore, if his aim is to say that when Christ changes a life, it means acceptance of his particular worldview, then I would have to suggest that he is operating with some presuppositions that he himself probably does not recognize--one of which is an Enlightenment perspective on interpretation. John I must have read this three or four times now, and I am still unclear what Pastor Grose’s intent is; and by the lack of comments, I don’t think I am alone in this. If he is simply saying that the written Word is God’s revelation and the standard by which we are to evaluate all matters of faith and practice, well, that is something most Baptists would affirm–whether they are fundmental, conservative, or moderate, and whether SBC, CBF, Free Will, National Baptists, or independent, and several more besides. He is furthermore right when he says in, “The Enlightenment . . . science became the determiner of truth.” I would go further than he does. When people who claim the name of “conservative Christians” look for God in the dark corners of science (if science can’t explain it, it proves God is there), they are tacitly accepting reason or science as the arbitor of reality.

On the other hand–if his aim is to say either that the revelation of the written Word should be accepted alone, while reason, experience, and community are ignored, then I must disagree, and on Biblical grounds. (If “taste and see that that Lord is good” is not aimed at experience, I don’t know what is; if the conversion of the Philippian jailer’s family is not related to community, it missed a good chance; and if reason is to be jetisoned, then so must be every systematic theology book ever written.) Furthrmore, if his aim is to say that when Christ changes a life, it means acceptance of his particular worldview, then I would have to suggest that he is operating with some presuppositions that he himself probably does not recognize–one of which is an Enlightenment perspective on interpretation.

John

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