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	<title>Comments on: The Irony of Dearborn, Michigan</title>
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	<description>A forum for Baptists to dialogue about how best to fulfill God’s calling in our lives.</description>
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		<title>By: Mondays are for Links &#8211; August 03, 2009 &#171; Gonna&#8217; Change My Way of Thinking</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8908</link>
		<dc:creator>Mondays are for Links &#8211; August 03, 2009 &#171; Gonna&#8217; Change My Way of Thinking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8908</guid>
		<description>[...] Dr. Ergun Caner offers his perspective on the firing of a Christian wrestling coach by a Muslim Prin... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dr. Ergun Caner offers his perspective on the firing of a Christian wrestling coach by a Muslim Prin&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Rogers</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8907</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8907</guid>
		<description>Brother BDW,

If I were to say; &quot;take your right hand and place it behind you and firmly grasp a handful of material below your belt line to pull out that wad your panties seems to be stuck in&quot;, would you take that as me being rude? :)

Seriously, I am not trying to say all of the Muslim community in Dearborn has sided with the principal.  But, I have neither read any reports where the Muslim community has spoken out against the principal slapping the high school football player.  And, for the record.  I have never veered away from speaking out against sin in NC and especially in Baptist life in NC.  Just ask the WMU.

Blessings,
Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother BDW,</p>
<p>If I were to say; &#8220;take your right hand and place it behind you and firmly grasp a handful of material below your belt line to pull out that wad your panties seems to be stuck in&#8221;, would you take that as me being rude? :)</p>
<p>Seriously, I am not trying to say all of the Muslim community in Dearborn has sided with the principal.  But, I have neither read any reports where the Muslim community has spoken out against the principal slapping the high school football player.  And, for the record.  I have never veered away from speaking out against sin in NC and especially in Baptist life in NC.  Just ask the WMU.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Tim</p>
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		<title>By: Wes Kenney</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8906</link>
		<dc:creator>Wes Kenney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8906</guid>
		<description>Exactly. Tim is only responsible for sixty percent of the sins of North Carolina Baptists.

:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly. Tim is only responsible for sixty percent of the sins of North Carolina Baptists.</p>
<p>:-)</p>
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		<title>By: the big daddy weave</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8905</link>
		<dc:creator>the big daddy weave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8905</guid>
		<description>Why does it seem that &quot;66% is afraid to call attention to the wrongdoing of 33%&quot;  ?

You&#039;re in North Carolina not Michigan, correct?  Do you have some insider information to share?

If this wrestling coach was as loved in the Dearborn community as his own lawsuit alleges, I am sure that he has received an outpouring of support.

And let&#039;s at least attempt to be fair here.  The wrestling coach is not blaming all of the Muslims in Dearborn for what happened to him.  Are you suggesting that each and every Muslim in Dearborn (the 33%) is guilty of the sins/wrongdoing of this one particular Muslim principal?!?!

It would be rather absurd don&#039;t you think if I or anyone else attempted to charge you with the sins of your fellow Baptists there in North Carolina...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does it seem that &#8220;66% is afraid to call attention to the wrongdoing of 33%&#8221;  ?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re in North Carolina not Michigan, correct?  Do you have some insider information to share?</p>
<p>If this wrestling coach was as loved in the Dearborn community as his own lawsuit alleges, I am sure that he has received an outpouring of support.</p>
<p>And let&#8217;s at least attempt to be fair here.  The wrestling coach is not blaming all of the Muslims in Dearborn for what happened to him.  Are you suggesting that each and every Muslim in Dearborn (the 33%) is guilty of the sins/wrongdoing of this one particular Muslim principal?!?!</p>
<p>It would be rather absurd don&#8217;t you think if I or anyone else attempted to charge you with the sins of your fellow Baptists there in North Carolina&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Rogers</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8904</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8904</guid>
		<description>Catherine,

You have pointed to a fact that has been grossly overlooked in our coverage.  However, as Dr. Caner pointed out in his post, Dearborn is 1/3 Muslim.  Certainly does seem that 66% is afraid to call attention to the wrongdoing of 33%.

Blessings,
Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catherine,</p>
<p>You have pointed to a fact that has been grossly overlooked in our coverage.  However, as Dr. Caner pointed out in his post, Dearborn is 1/3 Muslim.  Certainly does seem that 66% is afraid to call attention to the wrongdoing of 33%.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Tim</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8903</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8903</guid>
		<description>You can debate religion &quot;until the cows come home,&quot; but we still live in a society with laws.  Firing a person because of religious association (other coach his Christian friend) is illegal.  Punching a student and verbally harrassing the student is also illegal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can debate religion &#8220;until the cows come home,&#8221; but we still live in a society with laws.  Firing a person because of religious association (other coach his Christian friend) is illegal.  Punching a student and verbally harrassing the student is also illegal.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Rogers</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8902</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8902</guid>
		<description>Brother BDW,

I will get back to you.  I have been caught in a huge historical blunder and I admit my fallacy.  Sorry the mind was not working when the fingers were typing.  I have other duties today so it may be later tonight.  You know, Sunday is coming. :)

Blessings,
Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother BDW,</p>
<p>I will get back to you.  I have been caught in a huge historical blunder and I admit my fallacy.  Sorry the mind was not working when the fingers were typing.  I have other duties today so it may be later tonight.  You know, Sunday is coming. :)</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Tim</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Johnson</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8901</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8901</guid>
		<description>Brother BDW,

My interpretation of history is of little value when the clear facts are written, chiseled and preserved for anyone to read.

Anyone will choose their direction with these facts.  You may have jumped in a little soon to judge my intentions about how I might judge these earlier roamers of the D.C. area.  I might be more apt to call some of the SBCer&#039;s Godless liberals :)

If I would have been involved in the writing of the Constitution, it would not be necessary to include the word &quot;God&quot; in its construction as well.  Now if I construct a sermon, that is a different matter all together.

Blessings,
Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother BDW,</p>
<p>My interpretation of history is of little value when the clear facts are written, chiseled and preserved for anyone to read.</p>
<p>Anyone will choose their direction with these facts.  You may have jumped in a little soon to judge my intentions about how I might judge these earlier roamers of the D.C. area.  I might be more apt to call some of the SBCer&#8217;s Godless liberals :)</p>
<p>If I would have been involved in the writing of the Constitution, it would not be necessary to include the word &#8220;God&#8221; in its construction as well.  Now if I construct a sermon, that is a different matter all together.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Chris</p>
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		<title>By: the big daddy weave</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8900</link>
		<dc:creator>the big daddy weave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8900</guid>
		<description>Chris,

As I previously mentioned, I do not question that many of the Founding Fathers were motivated by their &quot;Christian&quot; faith.  Although, we should recognize that a number of these men were deists and hardly evangelical Christians.  You repeatedly emphasize that these men who crafted our Constitution have a &quot;Godly heritage&quot; etc. etc.  Ironically, if many of these Founders were roaming the halls of Congress today, you and most of your fellow SBCers would describe these men as &quot;godless liberals&quot; (maybe just &quot;liberals if you were being charitable) due to their extremely unorthodox theology.

Thanks for noting though that there is no reference to God in the Constitution.  Have you pondered why the Founders intentionally chose to leave any references to God and/or Christianity out of this secular document?

I hope you know that phrases such as &quot;clear facts of history&quot; (emphasis on the word &#039;clear&#039;) does nothing to buttress your argument in support of YOUR interpretation of history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>As I previously mentioned, I do not question that many of the Founding Fathers were motivated by their &#8220;Christian&#8221; faith.  Although, we should recognize that a number of these men were deists and hardly evangelical Christians.  You repeatedly emphasize that these men who crafted our Constitution have a &#8220;Godly heritage&#8221; etc. etc.  Ironically, if many of these Founders were roaming the halls of Congress today, you and most of your fellow SBCers would describe these men as &#8220;godless liberals&#8221; (maybe just &#8220;liberals if you were being charitable) due to their extremely unorthodox theology.</p>
<p>Thanks for noting though that there is no reference to God in the Constitution.  Have you pondered why the Founders intentionally chose to leave any references to God and/or Christianity out of this secular document?</p>
<p>I hope you know that phrases such as &#8220;clear facts of history&#8221; (emphasis on the word &#8216;clear&#8217;) does nothing to buttress your argument in support of YOUR interpretation of history.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Johnson</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2009/07/29/the-irony-of-dearborn-michigan/#comment-8899</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/?p=1402#comment-8899</guid>
		<description>Brother BDW,

You are technically correct that the “word” God is not in the Constitution.  Yet, you are technically incorrect to plead that the Constitution is not built upon the principles set forth by God. The primary voice, and framers of the Constitution are much different than the men that roam the streets of D.C. today.  There would be little doubt that if the Constitution is amended again in our lifetime, that the amendment could be viewed as not crafted upon the principles set forth by God. Flowers has a different agenda and is simply motivated to defeat the “Sacred-nationers” as he puts it.  I certainly agree with him and you that the Constitution is not sacred by any stretch of the imagination.  So, I won’t try to pretend like others and defend the notion that this is a quote a “Christian Nation”, because there is no such critter.  But, I can say, that based upon the clear facts of history… that the most influential men that framed the Constitution were driven by the light of God to form the principles set forth in the original documents.  To say otherwise is an act of ignorance,…or as our current President would say “an act of stupidity”.

The “Blessings of Liberty” which “is” in the opening lines of the Constitution is born from those influential men characteristic of their Godly heritage.  Even if there are others that think the “Blessings” do not come from God, it does not change the history of those men that influenced and penned the Constitution… that knew Godly blessings did and wrote and spoke of the giver of those blessings in a most frequent manner and with much precision.

You see, there will always be those in the United States that want to revise history (I hope you are not one of those), eventually neutering the truth of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc. But thankfully there are volumes upon volumes of evidence, and enough chiseled rock still visible to display the evidence and confound the ignorant even as Neo-Constitionalist’s strive to muffle the principles that truly have allowed freedom to ring.

God allows this government to stand beneath this manmade constitution (nothing sacred about it).  But, I hope we,… those of us that do understand real freedom as we live in this country, are able and willing to convince our young men and women that it is worth their time to know the truth which will only help to preserve and continue this pursuit of happiness.

Blessings,
Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother BDW,</p>
<p>You are technically correct that the “word” God is not in the Constitution.  Yet, you are technically incorrect to plead that the Constitution is not built upon the principles set forth by God. The primary voice, and framers of the Constitution are much different than the men that roam the streets of D.C. today.  There would be little doubt that if the Constitution is amended again in our lifetime, that the amendment could be viewed as not crafted upon the principles set forth by God. Flowers has a different agenda and is simply motivated to defeat the “Sacred-nationers” as he puts it.  I certainly agree with him and you that the Constitution is not sacred by any stretch of the imagination.  So, I won’t try to pretend like others and defend the notion that this is a quote a “Christian Nation”, because there is no such critter.  But, I can say, that based upon the clear facts of history… that the most influential men that framed the Constitution were driven by the light of God to form the principles set forth in the original documents.  To say otherwise is an act of ignorance,…or as our current President would say “an act of stupidity”.</p>
<p>The “Blessings of Liberty” which “is” in the opening lines of the Constitution is born from those influential men characteristic of their Godly heritage.  Even if there are others that think the “Blessings” do not come from God, it does not change the history of those men that influenced and penned the Constitution… that knew Godly blessings did and wrote and spoke of the giver of those blessings in a most frequent manner and with much precision.</p>
<p>You see, there will always be those in the United States that want to revise history (I hope you are not one of those), eventually neutering the truth of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc. But thankfully there are volumes upon volumes of evidence, and enough chiseled rock still visible to display the evidence and confound the ignorant even as Neo-Constitionalist’s strive to muffle the principles that truly have allowed freedom to ring.</p>
<p>God allows this government to stand beneath this manmade constitution (nothing sacred about it).  But, I hope we,… those of us that do understand real freedom as we live in this country, are able and willing to convince our young men and women that it is worth their time to know the truth which will only help to preserve and continue this pursuit of happiness.</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Chris</p>
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