We are grateful to Dr. Ergun Caner for providing to us his perspective on the recent firing of a Christian wrestling coach by a Muslim high school principal in Dearborn, Michigan. Ergun Mehmet Caner is the President and Dean of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary, and professor of Apologetics and Theology at Liberty University, in Lynchburg, Virginia. A former Sunni Muslim, Caner writes and speaks in the area of Global Apologetics. He can be reached at erguncaner.com and twitter.com/erguncaner.
There is irony in every line of this article from Christian Post.
In every Islamic Republic, operated by Sharia law, not only do sports mix with Islam, they are guided by it. Regularly Islamic Olympians are told to represent Allah well by their efforts. Prayer time is performed together as a team, to build the team character.
Yet in Dearborn, Michigan, a Christian coach (Gerald Marszalek) is fired by his Muslim principal (Imad Fadlallah). Why? because of his friendship with a volunteer coach who led a Muslim student to Christ at a summer camp. When the principal heard of this, he punched the student and told him that he disgraced his family!
Often Christians are amazed when Muslims protest Christian activities at public schools. Why are they upset? Do we not allow them to practice Islam in the schools? Why would they protest a Christian activity?
The answer is simple– Islam has never allowed RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
In over thirty countries around the world, Sharia Law, based on the Qur’an and the Hadith, allows for complete Islamic practice in every venture of life, especially in the school systems. What about Christians in Islamic countries?
They are only allowed RELIGIOUS TOLERATION.
In Islam, this is called the Pact of Umar, named after one of the first Caliphs, after the death of Muhammed in 632 AD. In it, Umar outlined the rules for Christians living in Muslim countries. Some of them include:
- Christians must allow their daughters to date and marry Muslim men, but Muslim women may never date or marry Christian men. You cannot stop the marriage of your Christian daughter to a Muslim, and the required conversion which follows.
- Christians cannot build new churches, or even repair the outside of older ones.
- Christians may not publicly proclaim their faith or witness.
The dilemma of Muslims living in America is clear- they do not understand true religious freedom. They cannot comprehend how any Christian is allowed to witness to a Muslim friend without being arrested, fired or worse.
The city of Dearborn, Michigan is a perfect example of the consequences of giving Muslims unfettered power to self-rule, even in the context of American Constitutional Law.
A simple examination of history clarifies:
- When Muslims are in the minority in a country, they scream “religious freedom” and demand their rights. They will use this to garner power and political influence, playing the “race card” to get their way. They will protest and march in the streets, especially when the cameras are on them.
- When Muslims are allowed to operate by Sharia Law in a democratic country, they will recognize Sharia over the democratic laws of that country, every single time.
- When Muslims are in the majority, Sharia is imposed and Christians are immediately repressed.
The irony of Dearborn? According to the article, approximately one-third of the city’s population is Muslim. This may be the first event we have seen, but it is not the last. 1300 years of history tells us this is inevitable.
Religious FREEDOM teaches that a Muslim can build a Mosque wherever the city codes allow…
Religious FREEDOM also teaches that I can stand in front of that Mosque with a sign that says “Jesus Saves.”
Either my kinsmen learn this distinction, or they need to leave.
Amen and Amen. This kind of thing is facilitated by the standard American policy of ignoring the deplorable religious persecution that takes place in Muslim nations across the globe.
Brother Ergun,
This will be an interesting case to follow. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.
Blessings,
Chris
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So is there a legal case for this situation is my question? Isn’t it funny the NAACP and all those other groups aren’t jumping to this mans defense. At the same time why are we so threw back that as Christians we are getting persecuted. We knew that this would get worse Gods word speaks of it. We must quit cowering to these types and do our part, by living right and loving our brother.
While this is definitely religious persecution, it appears also to be a result of American Christians who have not shared the Gospel, not lived according to our faith(the Bible) and turned our back on other things that led to this. We like to call it persecution, but we did this to ourselves. Are “we” going to speak up and speak out? Probably not. It’s the irony of lazy Christian living. “Redeemed how I love to proclaim it…” but not so loud you’ll hear me.
It is true that people who come to live in America should be taught religious freedom and understand that this type of action will not be tolerated. But, this is how Muslims treat one another. Read “Secret Believers” by Bro. Andrew of Open Doors. What an eye opener.
You’re comparing apples and oranges here. While Muslim law is strict (and, in my opinion, oppressive… as all religious law is regardless of the brand name) we TRY (sometimes) to operate on a different standard in the US. Democracy is a secular idea. America, despite the rhetoric used by select Founding Fathers, has always been a secular nation by design. The separation of church and state is fundamental to this.
I may not agree with Chritian laws or a religion that tells me I’ll go to hell if I don’t do what some version of some translation of an ancient text tells me (through a preacher, elder, parent, or “little voice” in my head) to do… but I do agree that, whether I like or not, people are entitled, in a democracy, to live by whatever delusion they think suits them.
If you don’t like what goes on in tax supported schools, home school your kids. On the upside, it will take some people out of the running for the few jobs that are left…. in this recession caused by George W. Bush.
Papa Mick, in 1791 (the year that the Bill of Rights was ratified), although the Federal Government adhered to the First Amendment, the several states, for the most part, had established state churches. If you were an American in that year, you probably lived under a state church.
That’s a pretty interesting “secular nation” that we have “always” had, if you ask me.
I think that those state churches were wrongful, and I’m glad that we have them no longer. But the fact of their existence disrobes the lack of factual support for your thesis.
Brother Ergun,
Thanks for the article. Is there any predominately Islam country that offers true religious freedom?
David R. Brumbelow
Papa Mick,
I don’t think you will find any regular contributor to this blog who believes anything other than “seperation of church and state,” though the use of the phrase must be interpreted in light of its original meaning. I do not believe Dr. Caner is arguing that the Muslim principal should be fired simply for being a Muslim, rather he is arguing that the Christian coach should not be “fired” for being a Christian. As a matter of fact, it is the very religious freedom that you emphasize that the Muslim does not desire. Many Christians have begun homeschooling, and do so with God’s blessings. But to say “If you don’t like what goes on in tax supported schools, home school your kids,” is to say that Christians should abdicate their conscience for the sake of avoiding intoleration. I assure you, should Muslims gain the control they desire, separation of church and state will be a misnomer and the current recession will be the least of our problems. A brief and objective scan of events toward the east will quickly prove that.
Papa Mick,
You comment in interesting. Apples and Oranges? Hmmm. America was not started as a secular society and the Seperation of Church and State was in the State staying out of the Church and exercise of religion, not the opposite as you present.
And then your more comical statement at the end concerning President George W Bush – though he does share some blame in the final months of his presidency I would ask, where were the Democrats on Capitol Hill? Since a President cannot implement anything – your comment is just chatter with NO basis what so ever and if any could be found it would be equally applied to the Democratic controled House and Senate.
And to top it all off my word for this comment was PATIENCE – WOW!
P.S.
Ergun, great post!
Papa Mick,
A question: You reference “religious oppression” and “going to hell.” Would you explain to me your understanding of the Christian religion? Thank you.
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Papa Mick, regarding your comments: I may not agree with Chritian laws or a religion that tells me I’ll go to hell if I don’t do what some version of some translation of an ancient text tells me (through a preacher, elder, parent, or “little voice” in my head) to do… but I do agree that, whether I like or not, people are entitled, in a democracy, to live by whatever delusion they think suits them.
Why do you use the terms some version and delusion?
The attitude of Ergun Caner (“learn this distinction…or leave”) towards American Muslims is eerily similar to the attitude of many Baptists at the turn of the 20th century towards American Catholics. During that period, American Catholics on the whole were by no means proponents of religious liberty and her essential corollary, the sepAration of church and state. But, over the next 30, 40, 50 years Catholics “Americanized” and adopted American values, ideals, principles, etc. Vatican II anyone?
I think we should be careful not to lump all American Muslims together as some conservatives who peddle fear tend to do. American Muslims are most certainly not a monolithic group. Will American Muslims “Americanize” and adopt our common principles and values? Will “Vatican I” American Muslims transform into “Vatican II” Muslims so to speak? Catholics for the most part did eventually embrace the principle of church-state separation. In time, I believe American Muslims will with the help of non-Muslim Americans of course. Not sure that striking an antagonistic tone towards Muslims, much less any group of people, will effect real change.
A few more comments.
Determining original intent is a tricky thing. It is a fact that the United States Constitution is a secular document as the Constitution is “godless” to quote Ron Flowers sice there is no mention of God in that document. While there were indeed state churches, this was not the vision of MANY of the Founding Fathers. I sincerely doubt that Bart would like to go back to an era when the protections of the First Amendment (and the rest of the Bill of Rights) did not apply to the states…
Unless John Mann has some secret power, I can’t take too seriously any claim to understanding completely the “original intent” of Founding Fathers for the First Amendment per 1791. Original intent as a theory or jurisprudence is worth little and most (including Scalia) have abandoned this theory.
I assume you do not hold to this view of the Founding Fathers Big Daddy Weave!
http://tinyurl.com/ksc8vz
Robert I Masters
From the Southern Baptist Geneva
I do btw
Brother BDW,
I am glad you quoted Ron Flowers and did not make such an ignorant assumption yourself. It is fact that the “Blessings of Liberty” do come from one creator, not some imagined cell eventually evolving into Adam. It only takes a few seconds in the D.C. area to realize and understand that the principles of the men of our founding are not our principles today…without a doubt Can things be improved in the US,…sure they can. But it is unwise and most ignorant to speak of our founding documents as not relying upon God (the Creator) as light for its design. You of all people, a historian in training, surely know the difference.
It does appear from your comments concerning the Catholic, the Muslim, and the Christian, that the assumed receiver of the Quaran is becoming a little more like Jesus Christ in your mind as our country seems to be founded godlessly and is maturing in that theme. On the other hand, the point of the post seems to suggest that the Muslim faith, based upon their holy book, is to be held as the highest law where any government can be disrespected. The principles of the law established for the US is quite the opposite and is in line with what the Apostle Paul has commanded the Romans to behave with respect to government. There is a huge distinction in those opposing principles (Christian faith vs. Muslim faith).
Blessings,
Chris
So sad. We have gone from discussing the problem with someone being fired to sharing their faith to this. Wow. I hardly think anyone could relate Muslims with Catholics. But we cannot hope to reach ANYONE for Christ unless we are willing to step out on faith and share with them. Nobody has said anything about a young man being hit in the face by a principal. Would that not get any principal, no matter who they are or what credo they live by, fired?
We don’t live in a Christian nation anymore. But there are a core of believers who are praying and hoping. There is only one thing that can turn our nation around and it revolves around the Church (the body of Christ, not the buildings or the denominations) and that is II Chronicles 7:14
Then if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land.
God is talking to the Believers – MY people: humble themselves, pray, seek HIS face, TURN FROM THEIR WICKED WAYS.
P. S. – I am disappointed in Big Daddy Weave. Music I have enjoyed, but unlike when I was a youngster: oh it doesn’t matter what that singer believes, I just listen to the music. I do think it matters and I am disappointed.
Naive me, I keep thinking that Christians believe the Bible is the Word of God! :(
Aabidah,
For the record, the Big Daddy Weave who comments here is not the original Big Daddy Weave to whom you refer, ie the Christian music group.
Though I must quickly add, I am not aware of any familial relations.
Brother John,
The only familial ties between the two is spiritural. I do believe they are both Christians.
Brother BDW,
How refreshing it is for us to cross swords again. Can you help me understand something and then I will be better able to address your obviously flawed, according to Brother Chirs, analysis of our founding fathers. I know there are state laws, which are not to contradict national laws, but can be more restrictive, then there are nation laws. That I believe is a very simplistic laity version of our legal system today. However, Dr. Caner has introduced a term that I believe has been overlooked in the comment stream. He pointed to Sharia Law as something that a Muslim will use over local government laws. What do you understand as Sharia Law?
One other thing. The comparison of Catholic turn of the century vs Muslim today is not even bananas to apples. It seems that you are advocating allowing Muslims–whose holy book tells them to kill the infidel–to freely become a majority with that line of reasoning. The difference would be that Catholics did not believe they were to kill those that did not agree with the Pope.
One more other thing. :) I thought you were a Baptist in agreement with one like Roger Williams. Remember he rowed across the river in order to argue in defense of a Jehovah’s Witness to believe that false Gospel. Why are you not defending the right of the coach to witness to someone without his job being threatened?
Blessings,
Tim
Robert,
No, my sympathies are not with Christian Reconstructionism.
Chris,
Again, there is no mention of God or a god in the Constitution. For you, the “Blessings of Liberty” do come from God. I too believe that Freedom is a gift of God. That’s not the case, however, for others. The phrase above hardly makes the document any less “godless” to quote Flowers again. Christian motivations certainly led some of the Founding Fathers to support ratification and other government legislation. However, the motivation of some of the authors does not make this document “sacred.” It is indeed secular.
Aabidah,
I was not making a comparison between Catholicism and Islam. Not at all. I was comparing the historical circumstances of American Catholics in the early 20th century to the situation we have here with American Muslims in the early 21st century.
Tim,
Can you point me to an example of where Sharia Law has been imposed here in the United States? Last I checked, we still strong legal system – a legal system strong enough that the Christian wrestling coach who was wrongly fired has exercised his right to sue for justice.
Tim: “The difference would be that Catholics did not believe they were to kill those that did not agree with the Pope.”
I’m a little baffled by what you wrote here Tim. You have implied that Muslims here in America desire to “kill the infidel.” Do you know any Muslims? Seriously. Two of my best friends through middle school and into high school were Muslims (Pakistan and India). Muslims were frequent guests at our home. They were students at Brewton-Parker College, a Georgia Baptist school. One Palestinian Muslim in particular has remained a close family friend and we stay with him every other summer when visiting NYC for Yankees games. Nobody tried or want to kill me, the infidel. Your characterization of American Muslims is um, wrong.
Speaking of their “Holy Book,” I know what you say their book says and I also know what many people say that our Holy Book says and I know how many professing Christians including Southern Baptists have used our Holy Book to justify evil.
I know how I interpret my Bible and I know how my Muslim friends interpret the book which they regard as Holy. We both tend not to read the books which we regard as sacred through extremist lens. Gotta be careful with my words here (“which we regard as sacred”) so I don’t get accused like Rick Warren of believing that the Koran is Holy!
Tim, your history is on shaky ground. The Jehovah’s Witnesses were founded in the late 19th century. Roger Williams died in the late 17th century…
The coach who filed the suit was not fired for witnessing to a student. You really should read the complaint filed by the Thomas More Law Center:
http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2009/07/dearborn-mi-wrestling-coach-sues.html
As I stated earlier, based on what we currently know I do believe that the coach was wrongly fired.
Aabidah:
I use the term “version” to delineate between Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnessess, Jews, etc. I don’t think that Christianity is the only delusion… I see all religion as a delusion that takes many forms that have been revised over time and in different cultural constructs.
I use the delusion because religion is one.
Brother BDW,
You are technically correct that the “word” God is not in the Constitution. Yet, you are technically incorrect to plead that the Constitution is not built upon the principles set forth by God. The primary voice, and framers of the Constitution are much different than the men that roam the streets of D.C. today. There would be little doubt that if the Constitution is amended again in our lifetime, that the amendment could be viewed as not crafted upon the principles set forth by God. Flowers has a different agenda and is simply motivated to defeat the “Sacred-nationers” as he puts it. I certainly agree with him and you that the Constitution is not sacred by any stretch of the imagination. So, I won’t try to pretend like others and defend the notion that this is a quote a “Christian Nation”, because there is no such critter. But, I can say, that based upon the clear facts of history… that the most influential men that framed the Constitution were driven by the light of God to form the principles set forth in the original documents. To say otherwise is an act of ignorance,…or as our current President would say “an act of stupidity”.
The “Blessings of Liberty” which “is” in the opening lines of the Constitution is born from those influential men characteristic of their Godly heritage. Even if there are others that think the “Blessings” do not come from God, it does not change the history of those men that influenced and penned the Constitution… that knew Godly blessings did and wrote and spoke of the giver of those blessings in a most frequent manner and with much precision.
You see, there will always be those in the United States that want to revise history (I hope you are not one of those), eventually neutering the truth of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc. But thankfully there are volumes upon volumes of evidence, and enough chiseled rock still visible to display the evidence and confound the ignorant even as Neo-Constitionalist’s strive to muffle the principles that truly have allowed freedom to ring.
God allows this government to stand beneath this manmade constitution (nothing sacred about it). But, I hope we,… those of us that do understand real freedom as we live in this country, are able and willing to convince our young men and women that it is worth their time to know the truth which will only help to preserve and continue this pursuit of happiness.
Blessings,
Chris
Chris,
As I previously mentioned, I do not question that many of the Founding Fathers were motivated by their “Christian” faith. Although, we should recognize that a number of these men were deists and hardly evangelical Christians. You repeatedly emphasize that these men who crafted our Constitution have a “Godly heritage” etc. etc. Ironically, if many of these Founders were roaming the halls of Congress today, you and most of your fellow SBCers would describe these men as “godless liberals” (maybe just “liberals if you were being charitable) due to their extremely unorthodox theology.
Thanks for noting though that there is no reference to God in the Constitution. Have you pondered why the Founders intentionally chose to leave any references to God and/or Christianity out of this secular document?
I hope you know that phrases such as “clear facts of history” (emphasis on the word ‘clear’) does nothing to buttress your argument in support of YOUR interpretation of history.
Brother BDW,
My interpretation of history is of little value when the clear facts are written, chiseled and preserved for anyone to read.
Anyone will choose their direction with these facts. You may have jumped in a little soon to judge my intentions about how I might judge these earlier roamers of the D.C. area. I might be more apt to call some of the SBCer’s Godless liberals :)
If I would have been involved in the writing of the Constitution, it would not be necessary to include the word “God” in its construction as well. Now if I construct a sermon, that is a different matter all together.
Blessings,
Chris
Brother BDW,
I will get back to you. I have been caught in a huge historical blunder and I admit my fallacy. Sorry the mind was not working when the fingers were typing. I have other duties today so it may be later tonight. You know, Sunday is coming. :)
Blessings,
Tim
You can debate religion “until the cows come home,” but we still live in a society with laws. Firing a person because of religious association (other coach his Christian friend) is illegal. Punching a student and verbally harrassing the student is also illegal.
Catherine,
You have pointed to a fact that has been grossly overlooked in our coverage. However, as Dr. Caner pointed out in his post, Dearborn is 1/3 Muslim. Certainly does seem that 66% is afraid to call attention to the wrongdoing of 33%.
Blessings,
Tim
Why does it seem that “66% is afraid to call attention to the wrongdoing of 33%” ?
You’re in North Carolina not Michigan, correct? Do you have some insider information to share?
If this wrestling coach was as loved in the Dearborn community as his own lawsuit alleges, I am sure that he has received an outpouring of support.
And let’s at least attempt to be fair here. The wrestling coach is not blaming all of the Muslims in Dearborn for what happened to him. Are you suggesting that each and every Muslim in Dearborn (the 33%) is guilty of the sins/wrongdoing of this one particular Muslim principal?!?!
It would be rather absurd don’t you think if I or anyone else attempted to charge you with the sins of your fellow Baptists there in North Carolina…
Exactly. Tim is only responsible for sixty percent of the sins of North Carolina Baptists.
:-)
Brother BDW,
If I were to say; “take your right hand and place it behind you and firmly grasp a handful of material below your belt line to pull out that wad your panties seems to be stuck in”, would you take that as me being rude? :)
Seriously, I am not trying to say all of the Muslim community in Dearborn has sided with the principal. But, I have neither read any reports where the Muslim community has spoken out against the principal slapping the high school football player. And, for the record. I have never veered away from speaking out against sin in NC and especially in Baptist life in NC. Just ask the WMU.
Blessings,
Tim
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