Is a “strong Gospel witness” always the same as witnessing every time you open your mouth, even when the situation is not right?

I’d really like to hear Rick Warren’s explanation of what he said & the situation.

When you say, “Christians like us (e.g., the Catharii) were the VICTIMS of the Crusades right alongside the Muslims,” are you suggesting some sort of organic connection as the Landmarkist position holds, or simply that there are some theological similarities between 21st Century Baptists and the Catharii, hence had there been Baptists back then, the Crusaders would have persecuted us too?

My experience with prejudice suggests that saying something does not erase the prejudice; rather it is a process that requires more involvement. Race relations in Ameica would seem to affirm that.

John

Just a quick response and then I am off again. It is Wednesday and I have to make certain my study is completed for tonight.

You ask; “How many Mullahs or Imams have been invited to address the Southern Baptist Convention? None, because we do not believe that Muslim truth is the same as Christian truth. The ISNA was billed as a pluralistic convention. Dr. Warren was a keynote speaker at a convention that advocated every truth was equal truth.

You say; “But he was the one invited, and it was no doubt based on his reputation.” If one’s reputation is of such that one gets an invitation to address a convention where truth is on display as equal, then that says more to one’s lack of presenting true truth.

You end by saying; “The Crusades are a rationalization for Americans to hate Muslims for 9-11? OK, I’m missing something here.” However, you move on to give the very point I am making. If you give rationalization for Muslims to view Christians as those who killed their forefathers in the crusades over hundreds of years ago, you have to give rationalization for Americans to hate Muslims because of 9/11, which happened less than 10 years ago. Of course our resident historian, Brother Bart, has certainly pointed out a historical fact that seems you have overlooked in your Crusade argument.

Blessings,
Tim

1. Point out that Christians like us (e.g., the Catharii) were the VICTIMS of the Crusades right alongside the Muslims.

2. Give a strong witness to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

There is no New Testament example of anyone who advanced the gospel by being coy.

I do not know the complete text of what Rick Warren said, so I do not know how he was introduced, what he said about being a believer in Christ Jesus, or anything else–in fact, I had not heard about this until I read of it here. God has chosen to work through people, so certainly it matters what is said–both verbally and non-verbally. When you and I are both long forgotten, people will still remember the Godly wisdom of Francis of Assisi, who said, “Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words.” So if he is correct, or even close to it, Rick Warren’s presence was itself a witness, when a more direct approach would probably have been rejected. After all: how many Mullahs or Imams have been invited to address the Southern Baptist Convention? I think it is a very small number.

My concern with your comments is that you seem to be very quick to criticize Rick Warren for not doing what you say you would have done. But he was the one invited, and it was no doubt based on his reputation.

Of course I believe there is urgency to the Gospel. But I believe the Holy Spirit leads us as to when, where, and how to present it. And despite some of the efforts of the SBC, one size does not fit all.

The Crusades are a rationalization for Americans to hate Muslims for 9-11? OK, I’m missing something here. My point was that the Crusades are the reason many Muslims mistrust Christians. Many, including women and children, were killed by Crusaders, who attempted conversion at the point of a sword, while others were interested in power and/or looting. That is the lens for how many in the Moslem world view Christians and Christianity. If Rick Warren’s address to the Islamic Society showed one Moslem how incorrect that is, he did well.

Thanks for the exchange, and best to you.

John

I think what I see as the issue here is a pattern developing in Pastor Rick’s ministry. When on the national seen, he has represented Christians as being more accomodationist and inclusivist rather than prophetic and exclusivist.

I am concerned any time we as ambassadors for Christ fear or fail to proclaim the clear truths of Scripture, especially the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Certainly not every encounter is a confrontational, finger pointing Gospel invitation…but some, or many more, should be.

Sola Gratia

I believe I have found the crux of the problem here…Rick Warren used only four points when he should have used five!

:-D

Sola Gratia.

I posted while you were responding. Sorry. I have matters that I need to address so I will comment here and then be gone for some time.

Your comment in #14 is what I am addressing. First, you are correct, the God who reveals himself in Jesus Christ certainly can work out another invitation for Rick Warren. With that said, does it matter what Dr. Warren said then? If we truly believe that the God that reveals himself in Jesus Christ is sovereign then I can stand before Muslims and tell them that Mohammad was a false prophet and if it is God’s will He will orchestrate for me another time to stand before this same group of people. However, I also know that if I pull my punches because I desire to be accepted this same God that reveals himself in Jesus Christ will shut that door tight.

You then say that Dr. Warren sowed seeds? What seeds of the gospel were sown? The only thing he said was that he was a follower of Jesus Christ. That is it. But then you end with the crusades. Do you realize that you just gave rationalization for Americans to hate Muslims because of 9/11?

Look, we just disagree here. I believe Dr. Warren missed a golden opportunity to present the Gospel. I believe he did it in the name of pragmatism.

Blessings,
Tim

I can’t get to Facebook because of the filters I have put into our systems….I’ll have to view the pic when I get back to the house.

I’m sure it will be worth the wait :)

Blessings,
Chris

Rick has the leeway… he just was silent concerning the gospel in this instance. I’m sure we all have had those moments of silence. He may be waiting for the payoff pitch later….who knows. His strategy may be to get deeper into the perishing before he preaches the Word.

I have many Muslim friends, and they are not silent about their beliefs. If I understand what Christ has said in His word,..their only hope is to hear the gospel….how will they know without a preacher.

Blessings,
Chris

I am in no way implying that you are against witnessing to Muslims. I believe you are one that believes Christ is the only way to heaven and that a relationship with Him is vital for eternal life. I believe where you and I differ is the urgency in which this is presented. As to my physician, please note the smiley face behind that sentence. He got the gospel before the surgery.

Brother, God did not call me to present my knowledge–ask anyone that knows me–I have no knowledge to present. Knowledge have I none, but what I have I give to others.

Blessings,
Tim