It is our great privilege at SBC Today to share with you a post from guest author, Mike Madaris. Mike pastors Hickory Grove Baptist Church in Green Cove Springs, Florida. He has been ministering to God’s people there for three years. He is a graduate of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary with an MDiv in Biblical Counseling. He has been married to his wife, Melissa, for eight years, and they have two children, three-year-old Morgan and the next little Madaris is on the way.
I have been a part of the SBC all my life, and one thing I have noticed is that there is, seemingly, a great emphasis placed on “position” within the convention. Men of all ages scramble for “position” within the political arena of the SBC. I have noticed this even more so in the last few years of ministry. “Young” ministers are demanding their place at “the table” of the SBC.
I was at a meeting yesterday, and a former pastor in Texas was leading the discussion. During our time together he gave us two questions to ponder; one of them being, “Who am I?” He said that answering this question is one of the most important things we, as Christians and ministers, have to answer. I believe he is right.
Is our identity found in what church we pastor? Is our identity found in what position we serve our great convention? I do not believe this is where we truly find our identity, although many seem to think so. I believe we find our identity in a person and a relationship with that person.
One of the keywords of the Bible and of the Christian life is the word “new.” The Bible speaks of a new heart, a new spirit, a new creature, a new covenant, a new birth, a new man, a new life, a new Jerusalem, and many other wonderful new things. The Bible paints beautiful pictures of these new things to help the reader understand what God has for us. One of those beautiful pictures is found in John 15:1-11. In the passage the reader finds Jesus sharing with his disciples the dynamics of the relationship they are in, and in clarifying the importance of that relationship, he uses the illustration of the branch and the vine.
I will not discuss here the four “new” things Jesus presents to the believer in the text, but I do want to highlight the first “new” thing. It is the “new” position in which the Christ follower finds himself. Six times in the first seven verses, Jesus uses the phrase, “in Me,” to describe the new position of the Christian. Herb Hodges says, “Jesus uses the word ‘in’ about thirty times in chapters 14 and 15, and it reaches its pinnacle of use when he uses the preposition with the personal pronoun ‘Me.’” They are two small words, but when combined they become the resting place of the souls of men.
The phrase “in Me” is found throughout the New Testament. Over and over again Scripture tells us of our “new” position, in fact the Apostle Paul uses this phrase 164 times in his epistles. God is trying to get a point across. The believer is to find himself in his “new” position.
Every person on earth is seen by God in one of two positions according to I Corinthians 15:22. The only two possible positions in which a person can be found is in Adam or in Christ. No person can be in both positions. It is an either/or proposition, and both carry extreme consequences. Herb Hodges states, “To be ‘in Adam’ means that you fell into sin when Adam fell into sin, you became lost when Adam became lost, and came under the judgment of God when Adam did. It is a matter of position.” Scripture goes on to allow us to examine what is entailed in the “new” position of being “in Christ” (Rom. 8:1; II Cor. 5:17).
The world has a standard of success. It is, seemingly, found in the clothes one wears, in the house one lives in, in the car one drives, in the place one vacations, in the salary one is paid, and so many other things. There are some within our convention who believe that to be successful you must lead a large congregation, to be respected you must serve as a trustee of some board, and the list goes on. But are these things the measure by which godly success is determined? Are these the things that are held in high esteem by our “Commander-in-Chief,” by the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? I believe the answer is an overwhelming no from the throne of grace and from the pages of Scripture. Faithfulness, obedience, relationship, service and humility are the elements of success in the kingdom of God.
How does one come to be successful according to the standard of Christ? There are two significant answers in my opinion: 1) answer the question “Who am I in Christ?” and 2) obey the command of Christ in John 15:4 which says “Abide in Me…”
There is so much talk today about bringing reconciliation to the SBC, but I do not believe it will happen as long as those who make up the SBC try to “find themselves” in any other place than in Christ.
Wonderful exposition, wonderful theology.
Thank you Dr. Yarnell.
Brother Mike,
Good Word. I especially like the use of our Lords teaching by way of John….
John 15:1-4 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. (2) “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. (3) “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. (4) “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
Unfortunately, there are many in the convention that choose selfish political gain over Godly political leadership and forfeit the reality of Christ’s abiding taught by John in a few sentences back (John 14:26) as the Father is dressing. What a great lesson the disciples of that day had… and now the great privilege to hear this now…even as disciples of this day. Glory to God!
Understanding by whose power we abide, is what you have so aptly stated,…and may we all learn the reality of that great mercy.
In Christ Alone,
Blessings,
Chris
Thank you Chris.
“‘Young’ ministers are demanding their place at ‘the table’ of the SBC.”
If this is true, then I have certainly missed something. Maybe he knows young ministers personally who are like this, but if he is including the blogosphere, then I would like to see some citation.
It seems to me that young ministers are doing the opposite of demanding–they’re leaving.
I believe there maybe nonyoung SBC voices wanting to include young ministers at the table, but that is another story.
Is this the reasoning that says “Well, they are not coming out and saying this, but we know that this is what they want”?
For myself, I think there might be more of a chance that Mick Jagger would open up the SBC in song, than there would be for me getting on some committee.
In fact, I request that I NOT be considered for any “position” in the SBC.
Grace
Benji
Mike,
Now that I have looked at your picture again, you sure do look familiar. Were you in the same preaching class I was in?
Benji
Benji,
No I wasn’t in a preaching class at SEBTS. We may have met in another class or just around campus.
As far as the argument that the younger generation of pastors is seeking his place at the “table.” You are right I never read it on a blog, that I can remember, but I have had conversations with many who have expressed their desire to be seated. I have also seen them “manuevering” so as to be able to try. I could give names, etc… but that is not the point. The point is not to live a life of “ministry” drawing attention to ones self, but to live a life drawing attention to Jesus. Paige Patterson can’t save anyone. Richard Land can’t save anyone. Johnny Hunt can’t save anyone. Adrian Rogers never saved anyone. These men have or are serving our convention faithfully. But I believe that if you were to ask them what was the focal point of their lives each of them would respond, overwhelmingly and emphatically, Jesus, not some “place at the table.”
Mike
Excellent point!
Brother Mike,
I think you are right why we should aspire to serve. But, we must be honest to note that in religious politics appointments are made by preference, and those preferences denote who will be appointed by affirmation of some board or process. And because it is by preference, there have been and always will be less than genuine participants seated at the table. So there is always a political agenda and level of control that politics inherently brings to the dance to advance personal agendas of some sort. Larger boards do help to keep personal agendas governed. But none-the-less agendas are personal and not always God honoring.
Many of the young pastors would have the same aspirations, and would have similar agendas were they selected and affirmed to sit on any of the political boards or agency posts. The task of leading some organization that is outside of the purview of the local manifestations of the church will remain difficult to judge, since the function of such entities are never in accord with all of the freely participating local churches.
I believe all Pastors must recognize the inability of the political structure to become the voice of any of the churches, but that these political structures should by simple yet effective ways use collected funds to spread the good news outward to the world concerning the one (Christ) you have led us to identify with in your post.
In other words, if you want to be in politics…by all means knock yourself out. But, if you decide it is too difficult or is not meeting your emotional needs, just realize that the political structures can only bring limited views of Christ to those being adopted into the family of God and the highest goal is to have those Christ has called to Himself nurtured and participating within the local manifestation of believers.
Blessings,
Chris
“But I believe that if you were to ask them what was the focal point of their lives each of them would respond, overwhelmingly and emphatically, Jesus, not some “place at the table.”
I guess I have a hard time believing that there would be many Christians in the SBC who would give a drastically different answer than this [regardless of age]. Of course, by God’s grace let us hope that we do not deceive ourselves in saying that our main focus is Jesus when it is really about gaining or keeping power.
Grace
Benji
Brother Benji,
I’m sure you are correct in your assessment.
What I have found being in and around the Baptist world for many many years is simply the tendency for men of common systems of theology desperately trying to maintain an advantage. That is what I have seen above anything else. Most men just feel safer when their theology is not challenged while at the same time believing their theology is the norm to be protected.
From the 1960’s into the 1990’s Arminianistic tendencies filled most of the seats of boards and agencies. This was a lean doctrinal time in Baptist life, …but it seems that a shift is occurring as the Word of God is rightly divided and more men long for the meat of the Word. So there are good days ahead as that trend continues.
Blessings,
Chris
Chris,
Your last paragraph…
:-)
Well said.
Sola Gratia!
Chris,
I appreciate your last comment. I am sure that as you lean toward a more biblical understanding of salvation that you will most assuredly continue interpreting Scripture with “all” Scripture. I too am glad that most pastors in the SBC strive on a daily basis to teach those sheep under their influence the “whole counsel of God.”
My one concern is that of an eliteist mentality concerning the doctrine of salvation. I cannot for the life of me understand why we can’t just admit that both sides come from a biblical point of view, know that this is a discussion that will never be solved this side of eternity, accept that God authored both “sets” of Scripture, and just make disciples of all men.
And I do pray that God forgives all of “lean doctrinal times” preachers.
Brothers Mike and Scott ,
I agree,….all ministers of the gospel should work hard to rightly divide the Word of God so that is becomes clear and concise as a normal manner of speaking…not some preprogrammed speech with little understanding and less authority.
Blessings,
Chris
well done, Bro. Michael.
Bro. Mike,
Excellent post. Sperry Lewis Chafer said there are 38 things we receive at Salvation, as a result of our position in Christ.
Thank you Dr. Foltz.
Dear chritians, why should we lie on our selves too much and exagerate when it comes to religion, if i asked you to believe in something that is true or false for sure you will use your brains either to deny or accepte the idea, but here the idea of trinity is something irrational, it’s extremely dangerouse to believe in something just to please the church. we all know that the church by througout the time made many mistakes and crimes( slavery, galilio,…) because of what they used to believe and chritianity if you think deeply is a faith that has known many changes over the time to be accepted by us and here i would say that i was blind about which path to follow but once i realized that to follow a religion just because my ancestors or parents did, is a blind belief. so for this reason i knew that it’s a must from God to look hardly and search deeply to find the right way. and this it’s not easy just to start doing it but once you get information about other religion and compare then you can be logical with your self and find out the total reality. have a Hebrew bible, Chritian bible and Muslim’s Coran for sure you must the most logical and the most acceptable to mind to anybody who has never practice a religion . and believe God and not me that what i found out in Coran is more than 800 evidence, in fact its the true religion. it answers all our questions; chritians,jews or muslims themselves. May God guide all of us to the right path
Noor,
God has set as a foundation of truth for you and for me…..
Hebrews 4:12-14 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (13) And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. (14) Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
When you said,
“so for this reason i knew that it’s a must from God to look hardly and search deeply to find the right way.”
Anyone who has ever lived, whether in Christ or not in Christ, can say the statement you have given us above. On the other hand, God gave us this truth….
1 John 3:7-9 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; (8) the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. (9) No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
The hard search and deep search has been satisfied by Christ alone. He has satisfied God’s wrath for sin and has destroyed the works of the devil. Only those who are in Christ having been sanctified…. Understanding Christ is not only the “right way”, he is the “only way” since He is God. He lives in those whom He has sanctified. We know we are in Him because we repent and believe that Christ, the God-man, is the satisfier of wrath that is upon those that sin. We know that the Holy Spirit (parakletos), Christ in us, abides with us testifying to the peace that has been wrought for us in Christ alone.
So you can be sure, the search for God is not a search that is known by a hard and deep thought process.
It is the gospel of God that finds the sinner, and cleanses the sinner from all sin.
1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. (9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
My and your only hope is to confess our sin to the person of Christ, who is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
That’s our only hope to know God.
Blessings,
Chris
Dear Johnson,
Sorry to our God and the God of Jesus, all prophets and messangers(bput). it was a typing mistake. i meant, “it’s a must that all people” .
so please just answer these questions to yourself and not me because i have the answer, tell the people who think like you, give them the evidence and tell the something logical that a 7 years child can get.
here my questions :
1- If jesus(bpuh) was god why didn’t he rose to heaven crucified on the same day in front of poeple, as you know prophets had miracles but jesus as you claim a god couldn’t make a miracle to himself? and how the Almighty God had one son to sacrifice with? how will be your mood and feeling if you notice your son is not good?
2- remember that the road that takes to the airoport is not the airoport itself? when we call a person devil does that make him devil himself? it’s just because of his acts that are unethical and what is the logical, emotional proof or whatever you may call, that Mohammed(bpuh) claims that Jesus(bpub) is like him equal to him and all ex-prophets and messangers(bput)?? as you know again, once one denies something should deny the source first, but because jesus and Muhammed(bput) are both equal from the Almighty God Coran sais the truth so go again and read it .
onec you read it you will find out that no muslim who understand islam indeed is a terrorist. and that islam is for people who love others more than themselves and not killing them.
3- if you still read the coran in the way you do, you will never understand it, because this why chritianity is with confussion, some people took advantage in the past and wrote what they believe and because of the geat love they showed to Jesus even those who have never seen him , they wrote in a mitaforical way and the church explains that in the way it sees beneficial.
may God guide you
Noor,
You misspeak concerning Jesus of Nazareth, …..There is no God “of” Jesus, because Jesus is God.
The answer you have is your answer. God does not lean on my or your understanding, He has no need. So your and my answers are not atoning in any sense of the word.
For your and my edification though,.. God has revealed through His Word, who became flesh in Christ Jesus, the truth concerning Life.
God said this….
Luke 4:9-12 And he led Him to Jerusalem and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down from here; (10) for it is written, ‘HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU TO GUARD YOU,’ (11) and, ‘ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.’” (12) And Jesus answered and said to him, “It is said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.’”
Your emotional plea for God to dance to your tune in this world makes no sense when the reality is that God cannot be tested.
Romans 14:11-12 For it is written, “AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.” (12) So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
You and I will give an account to God our Messiah as a son or daughter or as one on which His wrath will come.
Religion has no bearing on who is in Christ….only those who believe on the Messiah Christ are with God. Muhammad was a man, Jesus is the God-man,….there is no comparison. Muhammad is in the ground already judged,…Jesus has already risen eternally.
Philippians 2:5-11 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, (6) who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, (7) but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. (8) Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. (9) For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, (10) so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, (11) and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Noor, your stories are old and worn. The Gnostics of Jesus day had the same arguments even while being with Christ. They touched him, saw him, even witnessed his resurrection, but still did not believe. They had to make up stories, just as you do today. You are simply proving what those so many years ago also rejected. You are not the first to reject Jesus Christ and you will not be the last. My hope is that God will show you mercy. I know He can because He has shown mercy to so many, and His church continues to grow without losing any….. Your only hope is to know Him and serve Him alone.
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (4) Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” (5) Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (6) “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (7) “Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ (8) “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
From someone who truly cares for you and wants you to know God’s kingdom!
God has shown us His love,
Chris
im so sorry for a such believer like you who may never find the truth . you said :Romans 14:11-12 For it is written, “AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.” (12)
okey if you read this verse rationaly you are saved but if you read it irrationaly with church emotions you are still in dark , look :: <> WHICH MEANS TWO PERSONS AND NOT ME AND ME TWICE OR GOD AND GOG TWICE AS in coran , that you see evidence that is clear even for the blinds but Goa dont guide you.
your problem again is that you dont understand coran. again i have to clear up that islam does really believe in Jesus(bpuh) as a prophet and has risen to heaven even in coran this is the truth thank you. but my question is clear again:
why should Mohhamed (bpub) claim that all prophets and massengers are equal to him with no preference?? normally if we want to deny and make ppl reject someone else idea, we start by claiming that he is not the right person and insulting him, that,s we as human beings, but when it comes to God words prophets themselves should obey and give to ppl what God sais and not what they want.
go and read coran as a non-believer, because your heart is full of hate to islam which means even you want to realize that coran is true it will be the hardest thing ever for you, but i asked the Almighty God to Guide you and make it easy for you .
and the most funny is that you chritians you do believe in the science that is true in terms of the way you live and you reject it when it prooooves you the true religion are so clever, think about yourself ?? are you better that those ppl who serve us with the most complicated understandings of life , they do believe in coran when they discover that coran talk to them and to all human beings. i dare you if you watch this and you still blind with your heart:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMSCniERlSk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOYpjZywUPA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IspK651RpY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUPYs0gElU&feature=related
Noor,
The “coran” is simply another writing. It is not the Word made flesh.
I do not hate the person that adheres to the islamic faith. Nor do I agree that the islamic faith is the “faith once for all delivered to the saints” as God has written.
I have no need to go to youtube and watch more men try to claim God is not God. That happens all the time.
God is clear. He will not be mocked. I agree with the writer to the Galatian believers…..
Galatians 6:3-18 For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. (4) But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. (5) For each one will bear his own load. (6) The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. (7) Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. (8) For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. (9) Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. (10) So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. (11) See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. (12) Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. (13) For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. (14) But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. (15) For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. (16) And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. (17) From now on let no one cause trouble for me, for I bear on my body the brand-marks of Jesus. (18) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren. Amen.
I am content with the mercy of God. So let the chips fall as they may. God has spoken.
Blessings,
Chris
just one question which is very clear, don’t swim in the bible again :
did jesus say by words <>
John 8:58
Jesus made it clear that He is God not only through His Words, but through His work, and through His resurrection from the dead.
The bottom line is Noor, if you do not believe the Word of God made flesh, how will you believe me? I cannot convince you,… but I do pray that God will have mercy on you and that you will know, not just “hope for” His justice and peace.
All that know God, know Jesus as God. There is no confusion… as Jesus Christ did say,… “before Abraham was born, I am.” John 8:58
Blessings,
Chris
The following verses from the Quran prove this point beyond a shadow of a doubt.
2: 127 And remember Abraham and Isma`il raised the foundations of the House (with this prayer): “Our Lord! accept (this service) from us for thou art the All-Hearing the All-Knowing.
2: 128 “Our Lord! make of us Muslims [Muslimeen] bowing to Thy (Will) and of our progeny a people Muslim [Ummata Muslimata] bowing to Thy (Will) and show us our places for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning Most-Merciful.
2: 132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons and so did Jacob; “O my sons! Allah hath chosen the faith for you; then die not except in the faith of Islam [wa antum Muslimoona].”
2: 133 Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold he said to his sons: “What will ye worship after me?” They said: “We shall worship thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers of Abraham Isma`il and Isaac the one (true) Allah to Him we bow (in Islam) [wa nahnoo lahoo Muslimoona].”
3: 52 When Jesus found unbelief on their part he said: “Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?” Said the Disciples: “We are Allah’s helpers we believe in Allah and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims [wa ashhadoo inna Muslimoona].
3: 64 Say: “O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah.” If then they turn back say: “Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah’s will) [wa ashhadoo bi-anna Muslimoona].”
5: 111 “And behold! I inspired the Disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Apostle: they said `We have faith and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims’. [wa ashhad bi-anna Muslimoona]”
7: 126 “But thou dost wreak thy vengeance on us simply because we believed in the signs of our Lord when they reached us! Our Lord! pour out on us patience and constancy and take our souls unto thee as Muslims (who bow to thy will) [Muslimeena]“!
22: 78 And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive (with sincerity and under discipline): He has chosen you and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims [al Muslimeena] both before and in this (Revelation); that the Apostle may be a witness for you and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer give regular Charity and hold fast to Allah! He is your Protector the Best to protect and the Best to help!
28: 53 And when it is recited to them they say: “We believe therein for it is the Truth from our Lord: indeed we have been Muslims (bowing to Allah’s Will) [Muslimeena] from before this.”
*** It is important that th reader should grasp the following FACTS, based upon the verses above, as well as others in the Quran, that Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, the Tribes, Moses, Jesus, Mary and the Apostles, existed thousands of years BEFORE Muhammad and his Quran.
source:
http://inthenameofallah.org/We%20Are%20Muslims.html
Jesus, peace be upon him, clearly never got crucified according to the Revelation. He spoke about the “substitute” that got crucified in his place that perfectly matches the Noble Quran’s Divine Claims:
“That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): ‘We killed Christ Jesus [[<>]] (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)”
Dear Noor,
You are right to contend, and you have spoken clearly. The Word made flesh versus the word of a man still dead. I realize you place your trust and believe in the word of a man that is dead. I have many Islamic friends that continue to believe in the words of a dead man as well. On the other hand, some of them have been shown mercy by God and know Christ in His resurrection and now they walk in newness of Life.
When Jesus appeared to the John and the other five hundred after his resurrection, He demonstrated that He is God even after being crucified. The Apostle John had many in those early churches in eastern Turkey as we know it today that thought Jesus was just some ghost or apparition. The Gnostics, knew Jesus lived, died and resurrected, so they just pretended that it never happened and now you take it even a step further,… “Jesus was never crucified”. You are not the first and will not be the last to make such claims.
John was right….
1 John 1:1-5 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life– (2) and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us– (3) what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. (4) These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete. (5) This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
I will pray to this that John has explained, that He show you mercy and that your joy may be made complete. You can be sure that Christ not only walked the earth as Muhammad knew he did, but that he also was crucified and died a more brutal death than Muhammad did, and as you even deny now,…He resurrected and appeared to many people before returning to the Father. That is not just simple history and fact, but it is also astounding truth from God. May He show mercy on you my brother and may you recognize Him as Lord and Savior and bow to His Lordship over your life….with great joy! Peace is not upon Christ,…He is our Peace.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Blessings,
Chris
I think that we don’t worship the dead and this is clear,the Almighty God in the Holy Coran says that, for those who worship Muhammed(PBUH, Mohammed(pbuh)will die,and those who do worship the Almighty God, the Almighty God is alive and doesn’t die. and Mohammed(pbuh)himself warned us in his Hadith to follow and keep his words which are from God and not to worship or ask his mercy, JUST ALMIGHTY GOD,YES ALMIGHTY GOD. WHY didn’t he(Mohammed{pbuh})insist on worshiping him, what is the reason to claim that there is a God above him and us ? you can never ever find a question , because this is a clear evidence to the mountains, oceans and everything in the univers.
concerning people that you said converted to chritianity, i would say that those people, unfortunately, don’t know even the pilllars of islam, so how could they understand islam since they were born inside a society of chritians? how could they know even to read arabic in order to understand Coran? as we know CORAN couln’d be easy to a normal person who doesn’t know about the meaning of arabic words. i do sorry for them, because of the lack of language, they lost their right paths.
and language once you unterpret it in your own understanding, you must be in a wrong way, as terrorists they don’t understand coran and they act the way they want. if you read coran you will understand that god gorbid to kill whithout right, and is a very big sin to kill INNOCENTS AT ALL, no reason, no statement allow that, so here is that people could misunderstand things but God never ever misspeaks or gives a such foolish to treat people with injustice.
you still don’t answer my question !!!!!!! either you don’t read or you can’t answer them (^_^)
Noor,
What question have I not answered? I am not trying to ignore any question.
The “Coran” is right to say…that those who worship Muhammed will die. In fact, if we worship any man that is not of God, than the truth is not in us. That is the reason that the God-man can be worshipped, because He is God.
You seem to place a lot of excuses at the feet of those that have trusted Christ and not Mohammed. My friends are Pakistani’s, and speak some form of Arabic. They can think, read and understand just as you do. It is probably not a good excuse to say they can’t read “real” Arabic. And now they have become a terrorist because you say they don’t understand. That type of attitude is not love and is foreign to God. Christ forbade to kill period….not just as you say “without right”.
There are none that are innocent,… all deserve death and hell,….only Christ is righteous and provides that righteousness through His gift of faith to those that believe in His name. His righteousness brings peace to all men that believe on Him, because He is God.
Maybe the “Coran” is hard to understand for some, confusing for others…. Yet in stark contrast the Word of God is easy to understand because it is made known to us by the Holy Spirit (God) to all that believe. You are right to say that God has spoken…
Hebrews 1:1-4 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, (2) in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. (3) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, (4) having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
If I get your question, I’ll try to follow up at the first of next week. I will be away for a few days. Have a great day and may God have mercy so that you may know Him and the fellowship He brings in this life.
Blessings,
Chris
wish your trip was nice,
when on history was arabic a language of Pakistanis or Afghanis??
this is way those people are the source of terrorism, they totally misunderstood islam, because of language . so i have a suggetion for you to understand clearly.
Go to those Pakistani that you claim they turn to chritianity and ask them a too simple question that a 11 years muslim child can answer. tell them to give you the meaning if these arabic words from Coran, THE SECOND SMALLEST BOOK IS JUST ONE SENTENCE!!!: sourat: [AL IKHLASS]
IN ARABIC IS (( BISMI ALLAH IRAHMAN IRRAHIM, KOUL HOWA ALLAHO AHAD. ALLAHO ASSAMAD . LAM YALID WA LAM YOULAD. WA LAM YAKOUN LAHO KOUFOUAN AHAD.
IN ENGLISH IS : [[(1. Say: \"He is Allah, One.\'\') (2. \"Allah ASSAMAD-Samad.\'\') (3. \"He begets not, nor was He begotten.\'\') (4. \"And there is none comparable to Him.\'\']] The reason for the revelation of this Surah has already been mentioned. `Ikrimah said, \”When the Jews said, `We worship `Uzayr, the son of Allah,\’ and the Christians said, `We worship the Messiah (`Isa), the son of Allah,\’ and the Zoroastrians said, `We worship the sun and the moon,\’ and the idolators said, `We worship idols,\’ Allah revealed to His Messenger .
ASK ABOUT THE MEANING OF (As-Samad.)WHICH is the Master Whose control is complete.\’\’ FOR SURE YOU WILL BE SURPRISED of their claim they are muslims. how can you be a chritian if you don’t know what is a cross for chritians?? that’s the same case sir. wallah( by God’s name), if only we know each other in this world, who’s can be a good believer if he doesn’t want the good for people before himself? god warning us to love each other as human being before without taking religion into consideration . you know that the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) lived with jews and all other religions? once his hater who was a jew who tried hard to hurt him all the time , once he was ill in his bed the prophet even what he did for him of bad things and evil he went to visit him because neibourhood in islam is very important to love your neighbour, whatever his religion is. but in this materialist world today all the meaning are taking the opposite sides because of some people who want to make hate and troubles between religions and they are succsessful for acheiving that.
All what i can tell you again is to please God, if you really love him and read the Holy book with thinking not as an unbeliever. you know if you are a fan for a team, you can never change to another one even your team is loosing all the meetings, because your emotions are stronger than your mind, you keep saying i’m a loyal. so how about religion ?? is more stronger i would say is always teh most impossible thing to happen.
if you do believe in science, and scientists assert and admit that the coran is the truth from God, it claimed all the scientific Phenomenons 1400+ ago, and no man at all can know all these Phenomenons even like the most clever scientist in teh history, just the Phenomenon of the creation of human being is detailed in coran to understand who God gives us birth, so many explainations of all sciences are in coran . And i dare you if you say the bible claims that. coran includes many statements that are not reveled to any prophet or messanger before.
so you still don’t want to read it and understand it as a thinker and not as someone who was told how to think and what to think by the church or the preists.
MAY GOD GUIDE YOU AND ALL PEOPLE TO HIS LIGHT.
JESUS AGAIN WAS HIS PROPHET . i would say the way to the airoport is not the airoport itself.
What would your explaination be for the God who doesn’t know what will happpen in the future??
and what is this planty of versions??
the Bible looks like the book of Harry Poter each period a new edition in markets. But coran is just one, with no confussion since the arrival of Mohammed (pbuh).
I’m sure for sure that Jesus(pbuh) is innocent from what you claim to him.
International Standard Version (©2008)
“No one knows when that day or hour will come-not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father,
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
“No one knows when that day or hour will come. Even the angels in heaven and the Son don’t know. Only the Father knows.
King James Bible
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
American King James Version
But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
American Standard Version
But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Bible in Basic English
But of that day and hour no one has knowledge, not even the angels in heaven, or the Son, but the Father only.
Douay-Rheims Bible
But of that day and hour no one knoweth, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone.
Darby Bible Translation
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of the heavens, but my Father alone.
English Revised Version
But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.
Webster’s Bible Translation
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Weymouth New Testament
“But as to that day and the exact time no one knows–not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
World English Bible
But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Young’s Literal Translation
‘And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known — not even the messengers of the heavens — except my Father only;
Noor,
I thought I might reach out to you one more time on this post….. since I am back around for a few days.
I realize that you are committed to Islam and what it offers. It is clear that learning the language of Arabic would be beneficial if not required in order to understand the Qur’an teachings. This then allows a convert or a newborn to experience the meaning of Shahadah. In contrast to this works based religion and phonetic experience,… God’s Holy Word is something different. It does not require some specialized language of expertise in order to understand the meaning and power of God’s Word, and God’s Word has never changed.
So there is a wonderful assurance of God’s love, the history of all that He has done, and the fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ to all those who believe.
Even though we are definitely speaking about two different Gods, I do love you and will pray that God show mercy on you so that you may repent and know Jesus Christ as the only forgiver of Sins…. which is not works based at all. It seems rather interesting that a god (the one formed as Allah in your language) would, at the point someone embraces Islam, forgive all their previous sins and turn them into good deeds.
God’s adopted children are brought into relationship because of Christ’s righteousness, not something done as works by any person.
Blessings,
Chris