From Genesis 3, while we agree that there is spiritual death involved in the fall, the mention of spiritual death is not there. On the contrary, God’s words speak of physical death (“For you are dust and to dust you will return, he must not reach out and take from the tree of life and live forever”).

I guess we will have to agree to disagree but just know that I will still be praying for your return to the literal understanding of the creation. :-)

Thanks for the conversation.

ABClay

Death before sin? If the earth really is alot older than Adam, then yes, I guess there must have been.

But what death? Physical, surely. Spiritual? No. You see, death in the Genesis account certainly does not mean only, or even primarily physical death. God promised that Adam and Eve would die the day (there’s that word again) they ate of the fruit. But we know that they didn’t. At least not physically. Did God contradict Himself? No. Then obviously what “died” that day was not their physical bodies but their spirits.

While I don’t work with any compromisers who are cowed by Godless scientists on a daily basis, I do work with some ignorant rubes on occasion (and I am sure they think the same of me :-) )

ABClay

Thank you for your response. I am just trying to understand how your beliefs are congruent with the bible with my questions.

If death enters the world through sin (as the Bible states and you affirmed in your previous post), then was there sin (and consequently death) in the world prior to Adam and Eve?

Thanks again,

ABClay

When people fail to answer your questions, you might consider that it might not be because they cannot answer but because of the way you choose to engage them.

I have asked you a question at least three times, and you still have answered me. I’m beginning to wonder why. I will ask it again, since you have been influenced by someone to believe in the millions and millions and millions and millions of years theories, and notice that it is a theory. Because nobody was around millions and millions and millions and millions of years ago to record it. So, it’s the guess of some scientist/scientists about what happened before recorded history.

My question: Do you now believe that man evolved from apes?

David

The YEC interpretation of Genesis is most definitely not my authority, although they are free to hold that interpretation as I did for many years. I accepted it, argued for it, debated people, etc. I subscribed to Answers in Genesis and Ken Ham was my hero.

I just don’t anymore. God’s word hasn’t changed and its truth hasn’t changed, but sometimes, in their quest to discover that truth, people change. I think I have a better handle on the truth of Genesis than I did before. You disagree, and that’s fine. We can’t both be right, even if we both are sincere. Our salvation doesn’t stand or fall on being right about Genesis. The question is whether YECers and Old Earthers and Theistic Evolutionists and Intelligent Design-ers can work together in the same denomination. Let’s think about this before we answer. Can we work together if X thinks Y is an ignorant rube, and if Y thinks X is a compromiser cowed by godless scientists?

The post is about confessionalism. All Baptists confess that “in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth”. Is that enough, or do we need to, as a convention, take a definitive stand on the mechanics of how that creation was accomplished, how long it took, and how long ago it was?

I don’t think so, but that’s just me.

How did sin enter the world? And is death a consequence of sin? What is your authority for your beliefs regarding these two questions?

thanks,

ABClay

Thanks for the reference to a very good article. While I found what I think are a couple of minor mistakes (at least if the History Channel is telling the truth and if I remember college chemistry from 35+ years ago correctly), I agree with his thesis and conclusions. It is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about. Thanks!

John