Great stuff!

Thanks for going into more depth with me on this passage…as I said earlier, I do believe that baptism can be included as a confession, it truly fits. This passage, as you have precisely illuminated in its original form as we have it….does in fact move “the confession” more in the direction of Christ than in the direction of water. But, the confession does not diminish by any means the command to be baptized,….the “confession” that was made by Timothy only strengthens the command to be baptized.

I believe on the basis of text… that Timothy’s confession is indicative of Paul’s definition that is expressed in the Romans passage…..and is more in line with the confession and testimony of Christ before Pilate. The passage can include baptism, yet baptism, although never diminished,… is not the preeminent confession exposed by the text.

That is my basis of disagreement with a few of the other commentators….I believe they tend to bias their commentary through ecclesial design to some extent… and read that into the text. Again, baptism is not diminished, but it is not “the” confession or testimony to the type of immersion that Christ would endure. If the passage speaks to immersion reflective of Christ’s testimony, it would be closer to the Colossians 2 and Romans 6 in its meaning and thus is the basis for my slight disagreement with some commentators.

Thanks for digging into this one….

Blessings,
Chris

I don’t think verse 13 detracts from the baptismal interpretation of verse 12. Baptism is a public confession that symbolizes the believer’s faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour. When He stood before Pilate, Jesus was being a witness unto death at the time of His own death, burial, and resurrection. Jesus was giving a confession about His identity (John 18:37), and through baptism we give a confession about both His identity and our identity. Thus, the baptismal confession and Christ’s confession before Pilate fit together very well in verses 12 and 13.

Thomas Lea made an interesting comment about verse 13: “Concerning the Son, Paul spotlighted his ‘good confession’ made in the presence of Pilate, a testimony that was not merely verbal but that also included his suffering and death.”

Lea, “1, 2 Timothy,” in The New American Commentary, vol. 34, ed. David Dockery (Nashville: Broadman, 1992), 173.

What Jesus did on the cross and in His resurrection is a powerful confession that became part of our confession (baptism). Again, there is a strong connection between the baptismal confession in verse 12 and Christ’s confession at the time of His death in verse 13.

Also of interest is the close proximity of “were called” and “confessed” in verse 12. Only one word (the conjunction kai) separates these two aorists: “εκληθης και ωμολογησας.” Lenski apparently noticed this when he said, “Combined, as this confession is, with the calling into eternal life, it can signify only the confession made at the time of baptism.”

You said, “We know that Jesus’ confession before Pilate was not ‘His baptism,’ although He is the one that His followers are baptized into and identified with…..Christ’s confession was His Kingship, His Kingdom and His being the faithful witness….the one that has loved us and freed us from our sins by His blood.”

Remember, however, that Jesus’ physical baptism by John the Baptist had nothing to do with His death, burial, and resurrection. In contrast, the baptism mentioned by Hinson (Mark 10:38) was a direct reference to His death. Jesus referred to this “baptism of death” again in Luke 12:50: “But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!”

Robert Stein commented on Luke 12:50: “That this image is found in two different Gospels indicates that it was well-known and that the early church would have understood both Jesus’ baptism and drinking the cup as references to his death.”

Stein, “Luke,” in The New American Commentary, vol. 24, ed. David Dockery (Nashville: Broadman, 1992), 365.

Conversely, we should not have any difficulty seeing the connection between Jesus confession at the time of His death with our confession at the time of our baptism (which symbolizes His death).

1 Timothy 6:12-14

I find it interesting the range of thought between Lenski through Wuest,…from a probably to a perfectly and one said “only”.

The clearest way to interpret this passage is from the passage itself. Why would we try to go beyond what the passage reveals? Lets look closely at what is presented…. The phrase ….which you “made the good confession” actually is defined by the Spirit in the following verse. The Apostle Paul in the following line repeats the phrase “made the good confession”…..which reads together,

1 Timothy 6:12-14 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses. (13) I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, (14) to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,

What was the confession that Christ Jesus made before Pontius Pilate? To answer that question is to answer the question we ask of Timothy’s confession, because Timothy is identified to that same essence contextually in this passage.

Evidently Paul was informed by the Apostles or more probably Ananias,… of Christ’s confession before Pilate as he included his understanding of confession in some sense of what we have in John’s letter to verify the content of the “confession”….

John 18:33-37 Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?” (34) Jesus answered, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?” (35) Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?” (36) Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” (37) Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

Same author…..

Revelation 1:5-6 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood (6) and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

While Timothy confessed with his mouth and most assuredly at some point by baptism….. the phrase “made the good confession” this is presented as a cognate accusative with hōmologēsas,…demonstrating the force of the confession by another …that being Christ’s confession.

We know that Jesus’ confession before Pilate was not “His baptism”, although He is the one that His followers are baptized into and identified with…..Christ’s confession was His Kingship, His Kingdom and His being the faithful witness….the one that has loved us and freed us from our sins by His blood.

Paul gives his exegeses of “a confession”…..

Romans 10:8-10 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”–that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (9) that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; (10) for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Now that is a confession! This has been very encouraging to go back through these scriptures and see these great truths…..Confession certainly can be represented by baptism, but Timothy’s confession modeled after Christ’s confession does not in any sense take away from the act of baptism at any turn…in fact it informs the act of baptism with the reality of Christ.

Blessings,
Chris

“The word ‘profession’ is homologeo, made up of logo, ‘to say,’ and homos, ‘the same,’ hence, ‘to say the same thing as another says,’ thus, ‘to agree with what someone else says.’ Here it is used of Timothy’s statement of his agreement with the doctrines of Christianity at the occasion of his baptism.”

Kenneth Wuest, The Pastoral Epistles in the Greek New Testament for the English Reader (Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans, 1952), 98.

“Probably the reference is to Timothy’s confession of faith in Christ at the time of his baptism, when ‘many witnesses’ were no doubt present.”

Ralph Earle, “1 Timothy,” in The Expositor’s Bible Commentary, vol. 11, ed. Frank Gaebelein (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1978), 386.

“Combined, as this confession is, with the calling into eternal life, it can signify only the confession made at the time of baptism and not what may have been confessed when Paul took Timothy as his assistant, or when he appointed him as his representative for the Asian churches.”

R. C. H. Lenski, The Interpretation of St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians, to the Thessalonians, to Timothy, to Titus and to Philemon (Minneapolis: Augsburg, 1937), 717.

“The context of the good confession made by Timothy in the presence of many witnesses has been debated. Interpreting in light of v. 13, there are three possible alternatives: (1) confession made in persecution, (2) ordination (Meinertz, Jeremias, Barrett, or (3) baptism (Easton, Hanson, many others). The third suggestion has the strongest support. Persecution would not seem to have merited so formal a reference, and we have no record that Timothy experienced actual arrest and trial. Ordination seems unlikely because early ordination rites required no confession of faith. Barrett has sustained this view on the grounds that it makes the best sense of ‘obey your orders’ (v. 14), but, as we have seen, the military motif dominates the whole letter. The whole passage fits the early nuances of baptism perfectly. Baptism was an invitation to share in Christ’s self-offering to God. Jesus himself referred to his impending death as a ‘baptism’ (Mark 10:38).”

E. Glenn Hinson, “1-2 Timothy and Titus,” in The Broadman Bible Commentary, vol. 11, ed. Clifton J. Allen (Nashville: Broadman, 1971), 335-336.

This is what I found in my Library:

Title: Barnes Notes on the New Testament
Author: Barnes, Albert

MATTHEW 18:20
For where two or three …—This is a general assertion made to support the particular promise made Matt. 18:19 to his apostles. He affirms that wherever two or three are assembled together in his name, he is in the midst of them.
In my name—That is,
1.By my authority, acting for me in my church. See John 10:25; 16:23.
2.It may mean for my service; in the place of prayer and praise, assembled in
obedience to my commend, and with a desire to promote my glory.
There am I in the midst of them—Nothing could more clearly prove that Jesus must be omnipresent, and, of course, be God. Every day, perhaps every hour, two or three, or many more, may be assembled in every city or village in the United States, in England, in Greenland, in Africa, in Ceylon, in the Sandwich Islands, in Russia, and in Judea—in almost every part of the world—and in the midst of them all is Jesus the Saviour. Millions thus at the same time, in every quarter of the globe, worship in his name, and experience the truth of the promise that he is present with them. It is impossible that he should be in all
these places and not be God.

Wayne

I too have not taken the time to think on what constructive changes should occur in the Lifeway Stores….. so I was probably a bit heavy handed.

I know a lot of the managers of the stores and they are great people…..and I think there is a way for the Stores to reflect the clear message of Christ…..It would probably be more beneficial if I would give helpful solutions, instead of chunking tomatoes (I’ll save that for the University of Texas and Oklahoma battles of the gridiron).

Go Horns!

Blessings,
Chris

Because of differing ecclesiological views, the church bells of Rome should not toll in SBC circles. The 2000 BFM states that “each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes.” Such is not the case with Roman Catholics. For us, the church is the people, not the Pope and his Cardinals. To say that baptism is a local church ordinance is not a statement that rings friendly bells in Rome. The 2000 BFM states the following about baptism: “Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord’s Supper.” Some would argue that “church” in that statement is a reference to the universal church, but remember that baptism is not a prerequisite to the privileges of universal church membership. Baptism is a prerequisite to local church membership. It is a local church ordinance.

By the way, the baptism of the Ethiopian eunoch did indeed have a local church connection. Philip was an officer of the Jerusalem church, and the Jerusalem church sent Peter and John when they “heard that Samaria had received the word of God” through Philip’s itinerant ministry (Acts 8:14).

David Rogers, I’ll be in touch.