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	<title>Comments on: Guest Author: Rev. John Mann</title>
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	<description>A forum for Baptists to dialogue about how best to fulfill God’s calling in our lives.</description>
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		<title>By: blackhaw</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2044</link>
		<dc:creator>blackhaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2044</guid>
		<description>John,

I enjoyed your engagement with Wade Burleson on his blog not very long ago.  I have been at the seminary since 2001 I believe.  I have a MDIV and I am working on a ThM now.  While not every single memory or experience here at SWBTS has been positive, the vast majority have been.  When I leave SWBTS I will have warm feelings about my time here.

Drs. Patterson, Yarnell, White, Welty, etc. are not perfect.  And I do not agree with all their beliefs or everything they do.  But I think it is a shame what is going on in the anti-establishment blogs.  They are demonizing Godly men.  I have learned much from them since I have been at SWBTS.

I have much respect for Patterson because of the Conservative reassurgence.  I know many of the professors pretty well to very well and have found almost all of them to be models of virtue and character.

The SBC does need to change.  Our churches have a lot of very spiritually immature and theologically ignorant people in them.  I do not think the SBC is unique in this situation but it does need to change.  However these anti Patterson and co. bloggers are making these kinds of positive changes more difficult.  I have to ask why can&#039;t we get along better for the sake of Christ and the gospel?  I think we should strive to make that a goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>I enjoyed your engagement with Wade Burleson on his blog not very long ago.  I have been at the seminary since 2001 I believe.  I have a MDIV and I am working on a ThM now.  While not every single memory or experience here at SWBTS has been positive, the vast majority have been.  When I leave SWBTS I will have warm feelings about my time here.</p>
<p>Drs. Patterson, Yarnell, White, Welty, etc. are not perfect.  And I do not agree with all their beliefs or everything they do.  But I think it is a shame what is going on in the anti-establishment blogs.  They are demonizing Godly men.  I have learned much from them since I have been at SWBTS.</p>
<p>I have much respect for Patterson because of the Conservative reassurgence.  I know many of the professors pretty well to very well and have found almost all of them to be models of virtue and character.</p>
<p>The SBC does need to change.  Our churches have a lot of very spiritually immature and theologically ignorant people in them.  I do not think the SBC is unique in this situation but it does need to change.  However these anti Patterson and co. bloggers are making these kinds of positive changes more difficult.  I have to ask why can&#8217;t we get along better for the sake of Christ and the gospel?  I think we should strive to make that a goal.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mann</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2043</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2043</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Thank you. In regards to your earlier comment, I agree, when I arrived at SWBTS, there were some pockets of postmodern thinkers serving in professorial roles. I cannot think of one that I would place in that category now. To the contrary, I have learned how to effectively engage postmodern thought due to the current faculty. I assure you, that is not because of they have condemned that which they have not understood. I have had to read Derrida, Foucault, and Stanley Fish. My fear of what postmodernity would do to the church is not a fear of the unknown, but a fear of what I have read from its own constuctors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Thank you. In regards to your earlier comment, I agree, when I arrived at SWBTS, there were some pockets of postmodern thinkers serving in professorial roles. I cannot think of one that I would place in that category now. To the contrary, I have learned how to effectively engage postmodern thought due to the current faculty. I assure you, that is not because of they have condemned that which they have not understood. I have had to read Derrida, Foucault, and Stanley Fish. My fear of what postmodernity would do to the church is not a fear of the unknown, but a fear of what I have read from its own constuctors.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Johnson</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2042</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2042</guid>
		<description>Well said John,

Thank You,

-Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said John,</p>
<p>Thank You,</p>
<p>-Chris</p>
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		<title>By: John Mann</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2041</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2041</guid>
		<description>Lewis,

Thank you for the words of encouragement. I, too, have enjoyed the far too few opportunities of fellowship that you and I have had.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lewis,</p>
<p>Thank you for the words of encouragement. I, too, have enjoyed the far too few opportunities of fellowship that you and I have had.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mann</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2040</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2040</guid>
		<description>Jason,

I am sorry that your memories are not all good. Keeping in mind that I begun SWBTS in 2000, I sat under some less than conservative teaching. I have no idea who the professors are who you are referring to, but I can assure, EVERY professor that I have had that has come in under Dr. Patterson has been nothing but a godly influence. The brilliance of many of my professors is only outshined by their humility. Love for the Lord is evidenced in every class. Of course, I have not had every professor, but as my concentration is in Theology, I have come to know most of the profs in that school very well. And that is to my benefit and pleasure.

As to the firing of Dr. Klouda, my heart breaks that her life has been an uphill battle. It saddens me that her husband suffers from health issues. Yet, the very nature of the Christian faith is one in which faith is maintained even in the face of diffuculty. The crux of the issue has been made out to be how cruel Dr. Patterson is for releasing her. In certain people&#039;s attempts at convicting Dr. Patterson, it seems that there have been a few truths lost in the smokescreen. I would remind everybody that Dr. Klouda was not fired on the spot, but, in my understanding, was given up to two years to find another position. I would be thankful to God for two years to find another position should I ever be placed in the unfortunate position of being released. Also, we do not know the whole story. Dr. Patterson, in my opinion, has practiced great responsibility and discipline in avoiding the media circus that some have attempted to make this event out to be. He has been content to allow justice [God&#039;s, not man&#039;s] take its course. That is a great demonstration of faith and courage in my estimation. James warns us about improper uses of the tongue. It does not seem to me that the failure to heed this warning has been perpetrated on the side of Dr. Patterson. Third, Dr. Patterson was placed into a position of authority. The Biblical admonition is for us to respect those in authority, because they have been raised up by God to fill such a position. Dr. Patterson was invested with the right to make this decision by the Trustees, and he made it. It was his right and responsibility. He has told his Ecclesiology class that when he received a new authority in his life, he would go to them and offer his resignation, should they desire to accept it. That is a great demonstration of humility and faith in God&#039;s plan for one&#039;s life. Last, I, in no way, think that a lawsuit of this nature is proper for a group of believers. I am afraid that many fail to grasp the consequences of inviting the judicial system into &#039;religious&#039; matters. Please note, I did not say that the Seminary is a church, but this is a religious matter and should be handled within that body. The consequences of the judicial system making judgments on private religious practices will be tragic. Thank you for your question, and I would be happy to respond further to any questions of a substantive nature. Blessings, my friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,</p>
<p>I am sorry that your memories are not all good. Keeping in mind that I begun SWBTS in 2000, I sat under some less than conservative teaching. I have no idea who the professors are who you are referring to, but I can assure, EVERY professor that I have had that has come in under Dr. Patterson has been nothing but a godly influence. The brilliance of many of my professors is only outshined by their humility. Love for the Lord is evidenced in every class. Of course, I have not had every professor, but as my concentration is in Theology, I have come to know most of the profs in that school very well. And that is to my benefit and pleasure.</p>
<p>As to the firing of Dr. Klouda, my heart breaks that her life has been an uphill battle. It saddens me that her husband suffers from health issues. Yet, the very nature of the Christian faith is one in which faith is maintained even in the face of diffuculty. The crux of the issue has been made out to be how cruel Dr. Patterson is for releasing her. In certain people&#8217;s attempts at convicting Dr. Patterson, it seems that there have been a few truths lost in the smokescreen. I would remind everybody that Dr. Klouda was not fired on the spot, but, in my understanding, was given up to two years to find another position. I would be thankful to God for two years to find another position should I ever be placed in the unfortunate position of being released. Also, we do not know the whole story. Dr. Patterson, in my opinion, has practiced great responsibility and discipline in avoiding the media circus that some have attempted to make this event out to be. He has been content to allow justice [God's, not man's] take its course. That is a great demonstration of faith and courage in my estimation. James warns us about improper uses of the tongue. It does not seem to me that the failure to heed this warning has been perpetrated on the side of Dr. Patterson. Third, Dr. Patterson was placed into a position of authority. The Biblical admonition is for us to respect those in authority, because they have been raised up by God to fill such a position. Dr. Patterson was invested with the right to make this decision by the Trustees, and he made it. It was his right and responsibility. He has told his Ecclesiology class that when he received a new authority in his life, he would go to them and offer his resignation, should they desire to accept it. That is a great demonstration of humility and faith in God&#8217;s plan for one&#8217;s life. Last, I, in no way, think that a lawsuit of this nature is proper for a group of believers. I am afraid that many fail to grasp the consequences of inviting the judicial system into &#8216;religious&#8217; matters. Please note, I did not say that the Seminary is a church, but this is a religious matter and should be handled within that body. The consequences of the judicial system making judgments on private religious practices will be tragic. Thank you for your question, and I would be happy to respond further to any questions of a substantive nature. Blessings, my friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Lewis Richerson</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2039</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Richerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2039</guid>
		<description>Thanks John for being a voice for the thousands of students here at SWBTS that feel the same as you.  I have also sat under the teaching and leadership of these men and I can say with certainty that I have a deeper understanding of God&#039;s Word and stronger passion to proclaim God&#039;s Word because of these men.
Also, if I may, John Mann is a person of great character.  I do not know him well, but the classes I have had with him and the few times I have spoken with him he has always shown himself to be a person of character and Godliness.  Thanks John for your prophetic voice.

Lewis Richerson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks John for being a voice for the thousands of students here at SWBTS that feel the same as you.  I have also sat under the teaching and leadership of these men and I can say with certainty that I have a deeper understanding of God&#8217;s Word and stronger passion to proclaim God&#8217;s Word because of these men.<br />
Also, if I may, John Mann is a person of great character.  I do not know him well, but the classes I have had with him and the few times I have spoken with him he has always shown himself to be a person of character and Godliness.  Thanks John for your prophetic voice.</p>
<p>Lewis Richerson</p>
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		<title>By: jasonk</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2038</link>
		<dc:creator>jasonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2038</guid>
		<description>Hi John.  I enjoyed your article.  I&#039;m glad that you have benefitted from your time at Southwestern.  You have worked hard, and I know that you will enjoy the rewards of that hard work soon. Congratulations.

When I was a student at Southwestern, I had a class with a professor who told me directly that he had designed the class specifically so that the majority of the students would fail.  When I asked him why he would do that, he said that he wanted to send a message to the Board of Trustees that he did not agree with the direction they were taking the school.  It was fun to be a pawn in the political games of an institution of higher learning.
Another professor gave me a C on a paper, and ridiculed it, and me, in front of the entire class, because I had taken a position that was opposite of the one he had taken on his doctoral thesis (my position was that the adulteress pericope in John 7:51-8:11 was not only a historical account, but that it was written by John and belongs right where it sits in the New Testament.  He had a more liberal view than that).
Not all of my experiences at Southwestern were bad, just some of them.  I&#039;ve never been one to throw the baby out with the bathwater, thus I believe that your testimony makes sense.  It is a good school, with good leadership, and a bright future.  I only hope that the kinds of people who made my experience negative are no longer there, and that the faculty will focus on what their job is, not what they think it should be.
In light of what you have written, do you agree that it was a good thing for Dr. Klouda to have been fired? I would be curious to hear your thoughts on that, and whether it is right to ignore what some might perceive to be an injustice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John.  I enjoyed your article.  I&#8217;m glad that you have benefitted from your time at Southwestern.  You have worked hard, and I know that you will enjoy the rewards of that hard work soon. Congratulations.</p>
<p>When I was a student at Southwestern, I had a class with a professor who told me directly that he had designed the class specifically so that the majority of the students would fail.  When I asked him why he would do that, he said that he wanted to send a message to the Board of Trustees that he did not agree with the direction they were taking the school.  It was fun to be a pawn in the political games of an institution of higher learning.<br />
Another professor gave me a C on a paper, and ridiculed it, and me, in front of the entire class, because I had taken a position that was opposite of the one he had taken on his doctoral thesis (my position was that the adulteress pericope in John 7:51-8:11 was not only a historical account, but that it was written by John and belongs right where it sits in the New Testament.  He had a more liberal view than that).<br />
Not all of my experiences at Southwestern were bad, just some of them.  I&#8217;ve never been one to throw the baby out with the bathwater, thus I believe that your testimony makes sense.  It is a good school, with good leadership, and a bright future.  I only hope that the kinds of people who made my experience negative are no longer there, and that the faculty will focus on what their job is, not what they think it should be.<br />
In light of what you have written, do you agree that it was a good thing for Dr. Klouda to have been fired? I would be curious to hear your thoughts on that, and whether it is right to ignore what some might perceive to be an injustice.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mann</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2037</link>
		<dc:creator>John Mann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2037</guid>
		<description>Peter,

I have followed your blog as well as read your comments elsewhere for about two years. I admired the way you handled the ungodly accusations that you faced a few months back regarding a comment of yours that was manipulated for others personal promotion. You, my friend, exemplify true Christian character. Thank you for your witness.

In Christ,
John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter,</p>
<p>I have followed your blog as well as read your comments elsewhere for about two years. I admired the way you handled the ungodly accusations that you faced a few months back regarding a comment of yours that was manipulated for others personal promotion. You, my friend, exemplify true Christian character. Thank you for your witness.</p>
<p>In Christ,<br />
John</p>
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		<title>By: peter lumpkins</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2036</link>
		<dc:creator>peter lumpkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2036</guid>
		<description>John,

Thank you for your warm support of SWBTS, my brother.  Though a NOBTS man myself, I seriously considered SW in my younger years.

Given my personal record of questioning those who took it upon themselves to assign SWBTS in general and Drs Patterson &amp; Patterson and Yarnell specifically to the ashheap of error, ignorance and mis-management, it would surprise many that, unhappily for me, I&#039;ve never met any of them.  I just happen to know a dumb argument when I see it.

As for our Alex &#039;s mysterious presumption that you were speaking of Enid, John, I think is telling in itself.  It seems to me that Enid&#039;s unending flow of its vile, putred river directed toward the Pattersons and Dr. Yarnell has so thoroughly drenched our minds that when one thinks of the latter&#039;s critics, one immediately thinks of Enid.

Hence, a well-understood slip, Alex.  We know how you feel.

Grace, my friend, John.  Have a great day.  With that, I am...

Peter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>Thank you for your warm support of SWBTS, my brother.  Though a NOBTS man myself, I seriously considered SW in my younger years.</p>
<p>Given my personal record of questioning those who took it upon themselves to assign SWBTS in general and Drs Patterson &amp; Patterson and Yarnell specifically to the ashheap of error, ignorance and mis-management, it would surprise many that, unhappily for me, I&#8217;ve never met any of them.  I just happen to know a dumb argument when I see it.</p>
<p>As for our Alex &#8216;s mysterious presumption that you were speaking of Enid, John, I think is telling in itself.  It seems to me that Enid&#8217;s unending flow of its vile, putred river directed toward the Pattersons and Dr. Yarnell has so thoroughly drenched our minds that when one thinks of the latter&#8217;s critics, one immediately thinks of Enid.</p>
<p>Hence, a well-understood slip, Alex.  We know how you feel.</p>
<p>Grace, my friend, John.  Have a great day.  With that, I am&#8230;</p>
<p>Peter</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Johnson</title>
		<link>http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2035</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbctoday.com/2008/02/21/guest-author-rev-john-mann/#comment-2035</guid>
		<description>Brother Mann,

Thank you for the testimony of how you answer the call of God on your life.  As scripture so aptly states…..

Proverbs 3:26-28  For the LORD will be your confidence And will keep your foot from being caught.  (27)  Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, When it is in your power to do it.  (28)  Do not say to your neighbor, &quot;Go, and come back, And tomorrow I will give it,&quot; When you have it with you.

Also thank you for recognizing the worth of God’s encouragement through other men of the faith.  It will be an astounding day, when other purveyors of the gospel begin to mature to the fact that it is fallen men that serve the ministry that God has seen fit to make known.

Raised in Texas, I made the decision not to go to SWBTS back some time ago because it grossly lacked leadership that was pointing to biblical authority.  At the time, the regime was more interested in Post Modernism and its lure (those fads seem to fade fast).  Even in the midst of that immature crowd, God has seen fit to produce men of God at SWBTS that are now willing to support the same institution that failed a multitude of men and women in the past.  So, all things being equal, SWBTS will always have warts, but looking back over the past forty years, God has seen fit to burn off many past warts for the sake of His Word....and He is probably not finished burning warts.

The SBC World should be thankful there are more accurate signs of life,

Blessings,
Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother Mann,</p>
<p>Thank you for the testimony of how you answer the call of God on your life.  As scripture so aptly states…..</p>
<p>Proverbs 3:26-28  For the LORD will be your confidence And will keep your foot from being caught.  (27)  Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, When it is in your power to do it.  (28)  Do not say to your neighbor, &#8220;Go, and come back, And tomorrow I will give it,&#8221; When you have it with you.</p>
<p>Also thank you for recognizing the worth of God’s encouragement through other men of the faith.  It will be an astounding day, when other purveyors of the gospel begin to mature to the fact that it is fallen men that serve the ministry that God has seen fit to make known.</p>
<p>Raised in Texas, I made the decision not to go to SWBTS back some time ago because it grossly lacked leadership that was pointing to biblical authority.  At the time, the regime was more interested in Post Modernism and its lure (those fads seem to fade fast).  Even in the midst of that immature crowd, God has seen fit to produce men of God at SWBTS that are now willing to support the same institution that failed a multitude of men and women in the past.  So, all things being equal, SWBTS will always have warts, but looking back over the past forty years, God has seen fit to burn off many past warts for the sake of His Word&#8230;.and He is probably not finished burning warts.</p>
<p>The SBC World should be thankful there are more accurate signs of life,</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Chris</p>
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