Comments on: Evangelical Homiletics Society and Grace Community Church http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church A forum for Baptists to dialogue about how best to fulfill God’s calling in our lives. Thu, 17 May 2012 02:00:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: jasonk http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-393 jasonk Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:49:42 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-393 I'm just hacking on you a little. No harm intended. I really like John, and have yet to find anything that I really disagree with him on. If I did, I'm not sure I would have the ability to debate him. What I like about his manner is that he is extremely intelligent, perhaps among the most intelligent people in the world, seriously, but he is quite approachable and humble. You are right, there are many aspects of his church that are very humble. I like that. He spoke at Glorieta one year, and some friends and I drove over to hear him. There were not very many people there, so I went up and sat next to him, and we visited for a while. He was very gracious. During a question and answer session one time, someone asked him about the use of alcohol, and he spelled out his belief. He didn't make a big deal of it, he merely said that the Bible nowhere prohibits the use of alcohol, but only condemns drunkenness. I was really surprised, and glad at the same time. His response was candid, biblical, and lacked any shred of prejudice from tradition, or circumstance. I like that. I’m just hacking on you a little. No harm intended. I really like John, and have yet to find anything that I really disagree with him on. If I did, I’m not sure I would have the ability to debate him. What I like about his manner is that he is extremely intelligent, perhaps among the most intelligent people in the world, seriously, but he is quite approachable and humble. You are right, there are many aspects of his church that are very humble. I like that.
He spoke at Glorieta one year, and some friends and I drove over to hear him. There were not very many people there, so I went up and sat next to him, and we visited for a while. He was very gracious.
During a question and answer session one time, someone asked him about the use of alcohol, and he spelled out his belief. He didn’t make a big deal of it, he merely said that the Bible nowhere prohibits the use of alcohol, but only condemns drunkenness. I was really surprised, and glad at the same time. His response was candid, biblical, and lacked any shred of prejudice from tradition, or circumstance. I like that.

]]> By: Robin D. Foster http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-392 Robin D. Foster Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:57:05 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-392 Jason The sign was not the only humble thing I found about the church, but the sign itself was humble. Second, I never said I agreed with Mac Arthur on everything. I don't know what his stance on alcohol is, but if what you report is what he believes then I would have to disagree with him. Bro, I visited, I didn't join his church. So please don't taze me! :-) BTW, MacArthur has spoken at SWBTS and he spoke at the 2005 pastor's conference for OK. Both times I witnessed were awesome. Jason

The sign was not the only humble thing I found about the church, but the sign itself was humble.

Second, I never said I agreed with Mac Arthur on everything. I don’t know what his stance on alcohol is, but if what you report is what he believes then I would have to disagree with him. Bro, I visited, I didn’t join his church. So please don’t taze me! :-)

BTW, MacArthur has spoken at SWBTS and he spoke at the 2005 pastor’s conference for OK. Both times I witnessed were awesome.

]]> By: jasonk http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-391 jasonk Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:39:21 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-391 Robin, I too, attended John MacArthur's church several years ago for a conference. It was a refreshing experience, and I treasure it to this day. John is a tremendous Christian statesman, and I am glad to have read his books, listen to his tapes, and attended his church. My secretary years ago was converted as a result of his ministry. She had been a lounge singer and cocktail waitress in LA for years, but her conversion meant she needed a new job. John hired her to be a secretary at GCC, where she served faithfully for 20 years. She moved to the city where I was serving to be closer to her grandchildren. Our church insisted on baptizing her before we would allow her to join, even though she had been baptized by John MacArthur years before. I was holding her hand when she passed away, and I could almost sense that she was in the presence of Christ at that moment. For the record, Grace Church has a humble sign due to the city ordinance of Sun Valley, not due to some overarching humility from church leadership. Oh, and John believes that it is okay to drink alcohol in moderation if one is so inclined. And to think you went to church there! :>) Robin,
I too, attended John MacArthur’s church several years ago for a conference. It was a refreshing experience, and I treasure it to this day. John is a tremendous Christian statesman, and I am glad to have read his books, listen to his tapes, and attended his church.
My secretary years ago was converted as a result of his ministry. She had been a lounge singer and cocktail waitress in LA for years, but her conversion meant she needed a new job. John hired her to be a secretary at GCC, where she served faithfully for 20 years. She moved to the city where I was serving to be closer to her grandchildren. Our church insisted on baptizing her before we would allow her to join, even though she had been baptized by John MacArthur years before. I was holding her hand when she passed away, and I could almost sense that she was in the presence of Christ at that moment.
For the record, Grace Church has a humble sign due to the city ordinance of Sun Valley, not due to some overarching humility from church leadership.
Oh, and John believes that it is okay to drink alcohol in moderation if one is so inclined.
And to think you went to church there! :>)

]]> By: volfan007 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-390 volfan007 Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:17:48 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-390 robin and chris, if we lived in calvin's world, then we'd be in prison in the least. they'd probably kill me first. :) david robin and chris,

if we lived in calvin’s world, then we’d be in prison in the least. they’d probably kill me first. :)

david

]]> By: Chris Johnson http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-389 Chris Johnson Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:52:39 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-389 Thanks Robin, I look forward to your next post! Unfortunately, Calvin had a bit of a residue that remained with him from his Catholic endeavors and transformed his new found passion in Christ with a little of that in mind. Just an example of how tradition can quickly cloud the mind of sinners saved by the grace of God. Thank God for His perseverance! I think you are probably right,….Calvin and the boys “might” hunt you down….but I don’t really see the current SBC as overtly similar to the Anabaptist movement of the day, nor would SBCers want to be so…, so he may have mercy on you from that standpoint. Thanks for your insight, Blessings, Chris Thanks Robin,

I look forward to your next post!

Unfortunately, Calvin had a bit of a residue that remained with him from his Catholic endeavors and transformed his new found passion in Christ with a little of that in mind. Just an example of how tradition can quickly cloud the mind of sinners saved by the grace of God. Thank God for His perseverance!

I think you are probably right,….Calvin and the boys “might” hunt you down….but I don’t really see the current SBC as overtly similar to the Anabaptist movement of the day, nor would SBCers want to be so…, so he may have mercy on you from that standpoint.

Thanks for your insight,

Blessings,
Chris

]]> By: Robin Foster http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-388 Robin Foster Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:15:07 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-388 Chris BTW, I believe he would pass on me and possibly hunt me down for my beliefs on those two issues. I don't think there would be much chance of us venturing in planting a church under those conditions. :-) Chris

BTW, I believe he would pass on me and possibly hunt me down for my beliefs on those two issues.

I don’t think there would be much chance of us venturing in planting a church under those conditions. :-)

]]> By: Robin Foster http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-387 Robin Foster Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:12:49 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-387 Chris That is a great question that deserves more thought and insight than what a comment could bring. If you can wait for a response, I believe you have given me my next post. Thanks. Concerning Calvin and planting churches, if he would not change his view on infant baptism or church state relations, I would wish him God's blessings in his endeavor, but would pass on joining him on planting a church. Bro. Robin Chris

That is a great question that deserves more thought and insight than what a comment could bring. If you can wait for a response, I believe you have given me my next post. Thanks.

Concerning Calvin and planting churches, if he would not change his view on infant baptism or church state relations, I would wish him God’s blessings in his endeavor, but would pass on joining him on planting a church.

Bro. Robin

]]> By: Chris Johnson http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-386 Chris Johnson Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:39:45 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-386 Thanks Robin for the post and your response to Ron, Calvin has certainly advanced wonderful theology in some respects, and has smashed to pieces against the proverbial wall in other theological matters. But, I would not have a problem fellowshipping with ole Johnny C., if he were alive and came to my town. In fact, I would even consider planting churches with him, and correct him on infant baptism at the same time. I think it is going to be really difficult to maintain perfection…. I only got a momentary glimpse of it early in life :) Robin, what would you put forward as solid reasons for joining someone in church planting? Blessings, Chris Thanks Robin for the post and your response to Ron,

Calvin has certainly advanced wonderful theology in some respects, and has smashed to pieces against the proverbial wall in other theological matters. But, I would not have a problem fellowshipping with ole Johnny C., if he were alive and came to my town. In fact, I would even consider planting churches with him, and correct him on infant baptism at the same time. I think it is going to be really difficult to maintain perfection…. I only got a momentary glimpse of it early in life :)

Robin, what would you put forward as solid reasons for joining someone in church planting?

Blessings,
Chris

]]> By: Robin D. Foster http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-385 Robin D. Foster Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:42:37 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-385 <p>Ron K</p> <p>Thanks for your thoughts. First, allow me to correct your presupposition, I am not dismissing "evidence" because there is no evidence. Like what is happening in the political world, caricatures are being drawn concerning people like me who hold to the biblical beliefs Baptists have championed. </p> <p>May I also call into question your assertion that BF&M affirming Calvinists are being asked to leave the convention. First, I would ask you to define what you mean by "Calvinist." </p> <p>Second, I have yet to see anyone ask Dr. Mohler, Dr. Russell Moore or any of the faculty of Southern or Southeastern to leave the convention. The only attack I have seen against the faculty and staff of these two institutions has been their integrity being called into question because they have signed both the Abstract of Principles and the BF&M. </p> <p>Third, depending on your definition of Calvinist, I could be considered one and no one has asked me to leave the convention. In fact, I have been fully accepted by those who have been maligned with this false caricature. Furthermore, I have been called spooky, militant, and an isolationist. I have yet to be shunned or called anything but brother and friend by those who have been improperly attacked because of my belief in the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man in salvation.</p> <p>Ron, I am concerned over the division that is apparent in the SBC. I have tried to dialogue with those who disagree with me, but I have found it to be of no use with some of them. (Notice, I said some of them.) You may note that my commenting on various blogs has ceased. </p> <p>All I am trying to do with this post is correct some of the misconceptions that are out there. We are trying to do that on SBC Today with honest, respectful, and Christian dialogue. It is my continued prayer that this will occur and satan will not gain a foothold in the fellowship we should have.</p> <p>I thank you for your respectful comment and question.</p> <p>God Bless</p> Ron K

Thanks for your thoughts. First, allow me to correct your presupposition, I am not dismissing “evidence” because there is no evidence. Like what is happening in the political world, caricatures are being drawn concerning people like me who hold to the biblical beliefs Baptists have championed.

May I also call into question your assertion that BF&M affirming Calvinists are being asked to leave the convention. First, I would ask you to define what you mean by “Calvinist.”

Second, I have yet to see anyone ask Dr. Mohler, Dr. Russell Moore or any of the faculty of Southern or Southeastern to leave the convention. The only attack I have seen against the faculty and staff of these two institutions has been their integrity being called into question because they have signed both the Abstract of Principles and the BF&M.

Third, depending on your definition of Calvinist, I could be considered one and no one has asked me to leave the convention. In fact, I have been fully accepted by those who have been maligned with this false caricature. Furthermore, I have been called spooky, militant, and an isolationist. I have yet to be shunned or called anything but brother and friend by those who have been improperly attacked because of my belief in the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man in salvation.

Ron, I am concerned over the division that is apparent in the SBC. I have tried to dialogue with those who disagree with me, but I have found it to be of no use with some of them. (Notice, I said some of them.) You may note that my commenting on various blogs has ceased.

All I am trying to do with this post is correct some of the misconceptions that are out there. We are trying to do that on SBC Today with honest, respectful, and Christian dialogue. It is my continued prayer that this will occur and satan will not gain a foothold in the fellowship we should have.

I thank you for your respectful comment and question.

God Bless

]]> By: RonK http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-384 RonK Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:34:59 +0000 http://sbctoday.com/2007/10/17/evangelical-homiletics-society-and-grace-community-church/#comment-384 Robin, I don't know you so I would never call you an isolationist or "spooky" but it sounds (note, i say it sounds) as though you are dismissing evidence that some in our denomination actually may be isolationist and uncooperative. Telling a BFM affirming calvinist they have no place in the convention and are only working to split churches or telling a similar BFM affirming missionary they have no place in the convention, both sound like isolation rather than cooperation. I am not on the "inside" of sbc life or anything, but I'm a southern baptist and it appears that there are some for whom the description you dislike may be justly and appropriately applicable. In fact, some may call me a "liberal" because I appear to be floating down stream talking like this. That is truly "spooky." Robin,
I don’t know you so I would never call you an isolationist or “spooky” but it sounds (note, i say it sounds) as though you are dismissing evidence that some in our denomination actually may be isolationist and uncooperative.

Telling a BFM affirming calvinist they have no place in the convention and are only working to split churches or telling a similar BFM affirming missionary they have no place in the convention, both sound like isolation rather than cooperation. I am not on the “inside” of sbc life or anything, but I’m a southern baptist and it appears that there are some for whom the description you dislike may be justly and appropriately applicable. In fact, some may call me a “liberal” because I appear to be floating down stream talking like this. That is truly “spooky.”

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